Ebenezer Babatope is an experienced politician whose views come with some weight. In this interview the former Minister of Transport and currently a member of the Board of Trustees of the ruling Peoples Democratic Party, speaks on the expected straight battle between President Goodluck Jonathan and former Head of State, Gen. Muhammadu Buhari, in the 2015 presidential election. He also comments on the relationship between the PDP and former president, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, among other issues. Excerpts:
Sir, what is your assessment of the current political situation in Nigeria?
We have to thank God Almighty that despite all the problems we are faced with, Nigeria still continues to march on the path to proper democracy and we thank God that we no longer have military interruptions. That is good enough because it is going to give us all the chances to stabilise our democracy and move our nation forward. So, it is something which we all have to be happy about. We are currently faced with 2015 election and by the grace of God, it will come and go and Nigeria will remain one and indivisible entity.
How prepared would you say politicians are for the 2015 election?
They have no choice than to be prepared fully for all the challenges that may come with it. This is because, whether we like it or not, we have to leave legacies for people coming behind us. Papa Obafemi Awolowo, Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe, Sir Ahmadu Bello, Tafawa Balewa all left legacies. Despite what has happened, the country remains one. We are happy about the legacies they left. They left an unbroken nation. We had the Republic of Biafra which was made up of Ojukwu-led Eastern region that broke away at the time, but despite that, Nigeria has been moving together as one country.
We the politicians now are aware of that and we know that whatever happens, we must leave the country with continuity for others who are coming behind. I’m 72 now, and there are many of my friends who are my mates or older than me who believe that we have to leave that binding legacy for the young politician. That alone will sustain the polity; that alone will sustain the indivisibility of the country.
We have so many parties registered but today, the battle appears to be between the candidates of the two major parties – APC and PDP. How do you feel about this?
There is nothing wrong about it. The other political parties are still going to announce their candidates. No matter what we feel about them, they are still part of the multi party system. I’m happy with the multi-party system. Even though there are two major parties the PDP and the APC there are other political parties too. We must be happy that we have a multi-party system. The other parties are going to contest. Elections are going to be conducted and it is going to be won by the PDP.
What do you think the contest is going to be like with Jonathan on one side and Buhari on the other side?
No problem. The PDP has presented President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan as its candidate and the APC has presented retired General Muhammadu Buhari as its candidate. So, the choice for the Nigerian people is to choose either President Jonathan or General Buhari. But talking as a PDP man, which I am and because the PDP believes in God Almighty and the Nigerian people, the PDP will win. Those are the choices and we are preparing hard for it, and by the grace of God, we are going to have it smoothly without any problem. Anybody who wants to cause problem, God Almighty will remove him from our midst.
Sir, the general impression is that the PDP has become jittery since General Buhari emerged the candidate of the APC.
Far from it! Absolutely false! Jittery over what? Over Buhari? I, as an individual, don’t want to comment on Buhari, but eventually we will join issue. Buhari is not a candidate. This is a man coming from an authoritarian system to say he wants to become a democrat.
Many of my colleagues went to jail with me under Buhari. It saddens me when these things are being said. We are waiting. If the APC had picked some other candidates, we could have some fight; but General Buhari? Forget it. But when issues are being joined in a manner that is commensurate with the political aspirations of Nigerians, then those who are saying PDP is jittery will certainly say something else. We are set and we are going to unleash our programme.
We believe in God, we also believe in Nigerian people. That is why we said we will never leave the Nigerian people. There is a Chinese saying that says live with the people, love them, plan with them and build on what they have.
This is going to be the cornerstone of our campaign. What we are saying is that all the politicians in the country must ensure that there is peaceful election. All Nigerian politicians must make sure that Nigerian people pass through an electoral system that will give succour and encouragement because it is often said that elections are festivals of politicians. So, let us make it a festival and everything will be okay.
You are stressing that General Buhari is not a candidate to be worried over, but many political analysts are saying that his coming this time around is a different ball game. What would you say?
With respect to the Nigerian people and with respect to the Nigerian elite, what I am saying is what has come out of experience. I was trained and brought up by one of the greatest politicians in Africa, the late Papa Obafemi Awolowo. I was the Director of Organisation of the Unity Party of Nigeria which was led and founded by Papa Obafemi Awolow.
It was under that basis that Buhari carried out his coup in 1983 and sent all of us to jail. Eventually, it ended up that those who suffered worst imprisonment were the disciples of Papa Obafemi Awolowo. I went to jail. I was first of all put in Kirikiri Prison; later transferred to Jos Prison and later transferred to Yola Prison. So, I know what I am talking about. This is not the time to spell out these things. The history is there.
History is dynamic, and I am a historian. So, when we get there, objectively, we will present facts to the Nigerian people and they will judge whether what we of the political class at that time are saying is the truth or mere bunkum. The choice is for the Nigerian people and they will make that choice and make their pronouncement.
What is your impression about the emergence of Professor Yemi Osibajo as Buhari’s running mate in the APC?
It is the right of the APC to choose their running mate and they have done that by announcing Professor Yemi Osibajo. Good. Yemi is a nice person. I know him personally. My daughter is married to an Adeniyi who comes from Ikenne, so I know him. And I know that Yemi Osibajo is married to the grand daughter of Papa Obafemi Awolowo. I cannot start destroying Yemi; if I do that I will be offending my objectivity as an intellectual. I can’t do that. Yemi is a nice person. But that is a different ball game; he is now entering into the political field. It is a different thing. Politics is something which you can never take as a dinner party; never. So, we welcome their team. We have announced our team; our team is President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan and his running mate is Namadi Sambo.
Have you considered the fact that Professor Osibajo is a strong member of the Redeemed Christian Church of God and that with the enormity of the population of the members, he can be said to have some weight.
Let me tell you something clearly. I know Pastor (Enoch) Adeboye; we were both at the University of Lagos before he moved on to really pioneer the Redeemed Christian Church of God, one of the most powerful churches in the world. Pastor Adeboye is married to the daughter of one of my father’s best friend on earth – Papa Ijero. I know the spiritual life of Pastor Adeboye and I know his spiritual development. He will never commit the Redeemed Church to political crisis or fracas. He will not disturb anybody, he will tell them to go and vote.
They can vote for anybody. He will never commit the Redeemed Church to take partisan approach to politics. Are there no Redeemers in the South-South? Are there no Redeemers in the South-East? Are there no Redeemers among the Christian North? Are there no Redeemers in the South-West? How are you sure that they will vote for him because he is a Redeemer? That is a very cheap argument. No, no, no. That is not politics. Politics is more than what you are talking about.
So, the field is open and we are going there. The last time, a charismatic christian, Pastor Tunde Bakare, was Buhari’s running mate. Tunde Bakare is a nice young man. Nigerian people went to vote and Nigerian people are going to vote this time around again. You are talking about Redeemers, they are everywhere in the country and led by a man of God who will not allow the mission he has built to be ridiculed by mere partisan politics.
You have crises rocking some of the state chapters of your party and there is the fear that these crises will affect the electoral fortune of your party in the coming elections. What do you think about this?
Crisis is a normal thing in politics; one should not be debarred about that. And we are happy that we have about two months to resolve all these issues before election. Even, there is crisis in the APC; just that they have one of the best publicity officers in the country – Lai Mohammed. Lai Mohammed is a fantastic young man, but I can tell you that crisis can never be a problem to any serious minded politician. At the end of the day, you will see what is going to happen.
It is because the PDP does not make too much noise. Afterall, you have Bafarawa now in PDP from APC; you have Shekarau, formerly of the APC, now in the PDP. We also have Tom Ikimi, formerly of the APC now in the PDP. We didn’t make too much noise about it and they are planning and building with us in the PDP.
So, let’s leave that. We will resolve our crisis and move ahead, I can assure you. The PDP has already overcome the crises you are talking about. All we are looking for now is the election. Because we don’t want some of our members to go astray, we are still going to appeal them. We have a goal; the goal is to return President Goodluck Ebelo Jonathan to power and ensure that the PDP continues to rule Nigeria with total respect to God and the people of Nigeria.
How prepared do you think INEC is for the coming election, particularly, considering the fact that most Nigerians are yet to get the Permanent Voter’s Card?
I cannot talk for INEC. Jega can talk for INEC over all the preparations they are making for the general elections. I know that INEC may not be a perfect organisation, but (Attahiru) Jega has moved INEC to a position that everyone has confidence in it. I have no doubt that they are going to succeed in their operations.
But this PVC is an issue blown into a ridiculous proportion by those elements who are trying to manipulate the system. We had election in Osun State; I got my PVC without tears. We had election in Ekiti and the PVC did not become an issue. When it got to a particular state, it became an issue and everybody began to cry havoc.
I want to appeal to Nigerian politicians to co-operate with INEC. For the first time in Nigeria, we have a Professor Jega, who has done a lot. He has kept faith with the Nigerian people. I can’t fault him over what he has done so far. He has been operating in such a way that shows that he wants Nigerian people to vote freely to elect people of their choice. I have no doubt in my mind that the election will be successful.
How best do you think the PVC issue can be handled?
Everybody will vote. You cannot debar anybody from voting. Democracy is a growing process and if there is a problem, it is meant to be solved. When it is solved, it helps the growth of democracy. So, everybody is going to vote because democracy is the supreme choice given to the people to elect those that will govern them and you cannot deny them that right. I have my own voter’s card. I treasure it. And on the day of election, I will go and vote; so will all Nigerians.
Have you read Chief Olusegun Obasanjo’s new book?
I’ve always refrained from talking about Obasanjo because I come from an African society that places maximum respect on maturity, age and experience.
Obasanjo, no matter my political disagreement with him in the past which necessitated our writing books against each other he wrote Not My Will and I wrote Not His Will – he is an elderly person and only God knows why He allowed him to be a military Head of State of Nigeria and a civilian president. I cannot question God. Obasanjo is free to say whatever he wants to say. He has just written a book now called My Watch. I am looking frantically for that book. I have been told that he attacked some Nigerians in the book, and that I am among.
All I know is that despite the fact that I respect Obasanjo, I respect his age, I respect his maturity and his experience, if he writes anything about me which is absolutely false, I can promise Nigerians, and he knows that himself, that I will reply him within three months. Because of elections, I can even make it one and a half months. That is what Papa Awolowo trained me to be and I thank God for that. I will reply him. I will be happy if I can get the book, My Watch. I will read it and dissect it and come out. If he writes anything against me in My Watch, ah, I will spend 24 hours in one and a half months and reply him.
How do you feel that he parleys with members of the opposition party; they visit him regularly and Alhaji Lai Mohammed even said although he is not a member of the APC, he is sympathetic to their cause.
I know former president Obasanjo, very well. If they say Obasanjo is sympathetic to their cause, I wish them the best of luck. But I know that the APC people will be deceiving themselves to the high heavens if they believe he has sympathy for them. Obasanjo keeps on telling people ‘I am a PDP man.’ He has never told the world that he is out of PDP. As he has not said so, we must concede to him that he is still a PDP man. People who go to his house know why they are going. You can’t blame them.
They go to his house because he should be consulted over some issues. Obasanjo has lived in the history of Africa and contemporary world politics for many years that he has become what I will regard as an institution. For example, you can talk about Obasanjo conveniently as you talk of Nelson Mandela. His status is such that when you are talking about Nelson Mandela, Awolowo, Azikiwe, Jomo Kenyata, you put him in.
The major problem we have in this country is that of insecurity. Sir, how best can the problem of Boko Haram be solved?
The Presidency is doing its best to see that we combat Boko Haram. Boko Haram is a security situation that is not the fault of Jonathan. You cannot say it is the fault of APC, PDP or anybody. Boko Haram is a security problem for Nigeria and by the grace of God, we are going to solve it. Some three years ago, when we had the 2011 election, Buhari came out and said that people should go violent if Jonathan won. When Jonathan won the election, we know what happened. I am not saying that Buhari created Boko Haram, but I am saying we politicians must be very careful. Some politicians said if Jonathan won the election, Nigeria will be made ungovernable.
So, you have to put all these things together. Having said that, the truth is Boko Haram came and Boko Haram has become a major menace to Nigeria. It is something which every Nigerian citizen must be bothered about. Boko Haram tells us that they are defending the interests of muslims in Nigeria, but the killings by Boko Haram has shown that they are even killing more Muslims than they are killing Christians. We are appealing to them. I am one of the Nigerians who have been appealing to government to give them a hearing. They are Nigerians and the Nigerian government under Jonathan has been giving a hearing to Boko Haram.
Maitatsine came and went and Boko Haram has come and it will go; Nigeria will remain one. We have come together as one country that we cannot allow any type of divisive tendency to break the country up. And those that are supporting Boko Haram, time will tell and Nigerian will know them. At present, the issue of Boko Haram is not the concern of any individual but the concern of all Nigerians. By the grace of God, we are going to see the end of it.
It is as though the fight against corruption does not exist any longer. Unlike in the past, we no longer hear cases of politicians or public officers being probed or convicted for one financial crime or the other. What would you say about this development?
Corruption has been in this country for a long time. Even, during the First Republic when you have angelic politicians, the military that overthrew Tafawa Balewa government came out to say that the government was corrupt. So, we have had it with us. The most important thing is that we must be involved in the battle against corruption.
And, people say, ah, the government of Goodluck Ebele Jonathan is corrupt. Where is the proof? Come out with concrete facts about corruption and watch if Jonathan will not act. If you ask me, I am not talking as a PDP man. Ebele Jonathan has been fighting corruption with every active part of his body so that we can have a corrupt-free nation. He goes about allowing ICPC, EFCC, created by Obasanjo, to do their job.
If the EFCC and ICPC don’t have facts, why must they go after innocent persons? It is pertinent to note here that executive murder and high profile murder were the order of the day under previous regimes. Under President Ebele Jonathan, nobody has been murdered.
No high profile murder has been reported. No Nigerian has gone into exile under Ebele Jonthan. Ebele Jonathan is fighting corruption. Even in advanced nations of the world, you don’t stop corruption, you keep on fighting it and building the institutions built to fight it. The most important thing Nigerians should be talking about is individual freedom.
Source: National Mirror
