Luka Binniyat met the President of Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN),
Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor, in Abuja. Sam Eyoboka ran into the CAN leader in Lagos.
Both encounters produced this interview in which Oritsejafor bared his concerns
on what he described as the treatment of Christians as second class citizens in
their own country. He also spoke on Boko Haram, amnesty for the Islamists,
their victims, and gay marriage. Excerpts:
You are now in your second term as the President of Christian Association of
Nigeria (CAN). What were the challenges you faced during your first tenure and
what is your agenda for the second?
One major challenge was to try to reposition the Church in Nigeria to make sure
that it is at par with other religions in this country. This is because what I
saw was a situation where Christians were like second class citizens in a
country where probably more than half of its citizens are Christians, yet Christian
were like second class citizens.
So it was a big challenge and it is a challenge that we must continue to
tackle. It is also a major goal that I intend to work on, to ensure that
Christians are treated as true citizens of this country.
Because of my efforts to address this challenge, I am probably one of the most
misunderstood persons in Nigeria today. I faced it for three years and I am
hoping that in the next three years, probably many people will begin to
understand me in this respect, especially when they gradually begin to discover
the reality of the things that are happening in this country.
For example, the most recent one is when the Chairman of the so called
Presidential Committee on Dialogue and Peaceful Resolution of Security
Challenges in the North came out to say that they had met and struck a deal
with the Boko Haram Islamic sect and I said ‘which Boko Haram?’ We have had
experiences in the past where Boko Haram will come out to say they will stop
the killings and the next day people were killed! When I heard what the
Chairman of the committee said, I said, ‘Let us wait and see because Shekau
(the leader of Boko Haram) is going to come out to tell us what the real thing
is, whether they had a deal or not’. It didn’t take time; Shekau came out and
contradicted everything the Chairman of the committee said.
He said they are working in the vineyard of Allah and that they will continue
(with their attacks) until they establish Islamic state in Nigeria.
My believe is that with time, they will begin to see that I have no hatred for
any group of people in Nigeria. Anything I say is not coming out of hatred, it
is coming out of love and love does not hate truth. Love is a foundation for
truth. The Bible says “tell the truth in love”. So I believe that within a
short time, a lot of those who really thought I hated some people would begin
to see that I have no hatred for anybody. I will love to work with Muslims,
live together and do things together but that should not negate truth.
There are few things we are doing in CAN. We are building a Jubilee Centre that
will have 50 bedrooms where people can come and pay a little money to be able
to spend the night while in Abuja. At the same time, it will make some money
for CAN because the association needs money to run its affairs. The Centre has
a conference hall and different kinds of facilities. We believe God that, this
year, we would be able to dedicate the Centre. We will continue to strengthen
Christian unity among us because, as Christians, that will not stop until Jesus
returns.
You spoke about Christians being treated as second class citizens in Nigeria.
In what ways are Christians treated as second class citizens?
Actually, in my opinion, Christians are being treated as second class citizens
in virtually every way! Let me give you some examples because if I begin to
tell you everything, you will not even have space to publish it. In the
education sector, Almajiri schools are being built everywhere in many states of
the North. I don’t know how many of such schools, but everybody knows that in
2012, the Federal Government spent N5 billion to construct Almajiri schools.
The Almajiri schools are exclusively for Muslim children. There are millions of
Christian children who cannot go to those schools. How are we giving those
Christian children the same opportunity to be educated? So automatically they
have been made second class citizens.
Don’t forget that the schools which Christians used their money to build were
taken over by government and the same government is using public funds to build
special schools for Almajiri Muslims. That shows that Christians are just
second class citizens.
Government is running all those schools taken from Christians the way they
want. Both Christians and Muslim go to those schools but the Almajiri schools
are exclusively for Muslim children only.
When you go to the judiciary, it is the same story.
I read what a lawyer, Mr. Olisa Agbakoba, said in the newspapers recently. He
noted that the constitution is being reviewed and there are provisions for
Sharia for Nigerian Muslims, there is customary court, what is the provision
for Christians? The general courts are shared by both Christians and Muslims.
When Christians have very knotty issues that are purely Christian in nature,
where will they go to? The regular courts may not have clear solution to such
cases. So Agbakoba has come out to say he may sue the Federal Government and
the National Assembly. This, to me, is a very interesting move. I just hope
that our Muslim brothers will appreciate what I am trying to explain. In the
Sharia courts which are funded with public funds, only Muslims are employed
there.
From the cleaner to the judge, no Christian can be employed in the Sharia
court. In the regular courts, there are both Muslims and Christians as well.
From the lowest level of the court, to the highest level, they are there. They
are the ones that head the Supreme Court and most of the courts with the Sharia
court exclusively for them. What is the judicial system for Christians? It is
not there, so they are second class.
Nigeria Television Authority
Go to the government owned media houses and see what is happening there,
especially the Nigeria Television Authority (NTA). I don’t know now because
some of them retired at a point, but, before their retirement, the seven
directors out of eight were Muslims. Turn that around and see what will happen.
What do you call that? Second class citizens.
A judge in Abuja came out to say Islamic banking is illegal, but he added a
caveat by saying that his hands were tight, he could not do anything about it
because it was not the right people that came to court. I am still wondering
who the right people to come to court are! But the important thing he said was
that Islamic banking is illegal.
Islamic banking
It is illegal but it is functioning at its peak, established and financed by
the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), not Central Bank of Islam. The Governor of
the CBN almost seems to be working for a section of the country and nobody can
say anything about it. Yet it is something that is supposed to be illegal.
What the CBN ought to have done was to have one unified system for non-interest
banking, but, instead of doing that, what it did is to specifically come out
with a set of guidelines for Islamic banking, saying they had another set of
guidelines for others. And who are these others? They are the Christians. It is
amazing when you see these things happening. Every area you look at, it is the
same story.
Admission into tertiary schools
Go to higher institutions of higher, especially in the North, there are courses
that Christians will never be offered admission to study, that is if you even
get admission at all because you are a Christian and that automatically makes
you a second class person.
Ban on teaching of CRK and preaching on NTA
In some northern states, the teaching of Christian Religious Knowledge (CRK) in
public schools is prohibited. Why do you allow for the teaching of Islamic
studies, but you cannot allow the teaching of CRK? I am puzzled. Let me even go
further, if I go to NTA Sokoto today and say here is my money, I want to preach
on NTA that is funded with tax payers’ money, they will throw my money away and
say you cannot preach Christianity on NTA Sokoto.
We know that in some of the northern states, there is an unwritten law that you
cannot sell land or building to be used for church or a brothel. So the church
and brothel are put on the same level! How do you describe that? In the last 20
years, there is no church in some of these northern states that has Certificate
of Occupancy (C of O).
This is one Nigeria, but it is like animal farm. Some animals are more equals
than others. That is what we are seeing in this wonderful country called
Nigeria.
Abduction and forceful conversion of Christian girls
They can abduct your daughter and forcefully marry her. They literally
kidnapped people’s daughters who are Christians and give them out for marriage
but they will never allow their daughters to marry Christians. Imagine a pastor
going to abduct an Imam’s daughter; do you think we will still have one
Nigeria?
In some of the northern states, the government spends millions of naira to
sponsor Muslims on pilgrimage to Mecca without extending same gesture to
Christians who are even indigenes of those states.
We are aware that in some of the far northern states, foreigners, who are
Muslims from Niger and Chad republics, are more accommodated and are accepted
into the scheme of things than Nigerians who are Christians from other states
of the federation.
Qualified Christian denied ABU VC Chair
You recall how a Christian was rejected for appointment as the Vice Chancellor
of Ahmadu Bello University (ABU), Zaria some years back even when he emerged as
the most qualified during the interview for the position.
There are so many of these injustices against Christians, we can go on and on.
That is why, in my own opinion, Boko Haram is just the latest manifestation of
this same process of marginalisation and oppression that had taken place
through the years. It has reached a point where it appears like we accept it.
I believe that the time has come for us to say NO!, it cannot be that way. This
is not because anybody has hatred for anybody. You cannot call standing up for
what is right hatred. We all have equal rights as Nigerians; I have a right to
ask for my right. That does not mean that I hate somebody. I am only demanding
that I should be treated equally and fairly like others.
So these are some of the few things that made me see Christians literally as
second class citizens in their own country.
There is agitation for amnesty for Boko Haram in some quarters. But some other
people are suggesting that victims of Boko Haram should be given succor first.
What is your thinking here?
It is very unfortunate because, in any situation, I almost used the word
conflict, but it is not a conflict because what we have is genocide. I call it
religious cleansing. That is what we are actually experiencing.
In any situation where lives are lost, number one and overwhelming interest
should always be about the victims. Look at the so-called Dialogue and
Reconciliation Committee that was set up! There are 28 people, five are
Christians, so who is representing the people who are the victims or the people
you are supposed to be reconciling? Who are you reconciling with whom? It is
difficult to comprehend. I think the approach is very wrong.
You can’t even talk of amnesty; it is not something to be discussed at all!
What we should be talking about are these wicked people who have made orphans
out of so many children, widows out of so many women. They should be able to
come out when they realise that what they are doing is wrong and publicly say
‘we are wrong and we are so sorry, forgive us’.
If they come from that point, then you are ready to talk of reconciliation, you
are talking of forgiveness, then there can be genuine meeting of minds, we can
discuss and say, ‘since you feel this way, we can now start to talk because
Christianity is a religion of peace, love and forgiveness.
That is what the Bible taught us. In fact, that is why Nigeria is so peaceful
because more than half of the people in this country are a group of people who
believe in love, peace and forgiveness. If they come from that angle, then we can
now start talking and, at that point, there could be a discussion of any other
thing that will take place, but not where we are now.
Where we are today is that we are having a group who are killing innocent
people and coming out to boast about it and saying ‘ you who want to give me
amnesty, I am the one to give you amnesty’. So which amnesty are you giving
them? I don’t think there is room for that discussion right now. I think
government should strengthen the Joint Military Task Force (JTF) which is doing
its best to curb this thing and reduce it to the barest minimum. They military
should be encouraged and empowered the more to address the situation. But they
must be encouraged to operate within the rules of engagement.
We can see that since the state of emergency was declared in the three states,
there has been tremendous improvement in so many areas, although we know that
killings are still going on. So I am more concerned about the victims of the
killings and I think anybody else should be, not about these criminals, these
wicked people who are going out there and killing innocent people.
Look at those school children they killed in Yobe. Shekau came out excited
about it and said they will do more. What he is saying basically is that, the
fact that these children who are Muslims are sent by their parents to acquire
western education, it automatically made them infidels. People must always
remember to connect this with Christianity because when they say they are
against western education, they are against Christianity.
It is Christianity that brought western education. They are against it and they
are fighting it because western education has its foundation in Christianity….
That is why they are against Muslim parents that want their children to compete
in the global village that we are today….. These are serious crimes that these
people have committed against God and against man.
The Senate just voted to endorse child marriage in the country. What is your
take?
I think it is one of the greatest shames of the century for Nigeria not just
the National Assembly because the National Assembly is a reflection of Nigeria.
I feel ashamed to call myself a Nigerian. I saw something in the newspapers; if
it is true, where a senator said he was prepared to give out his six-year old
daughter in marriage. These are child molesters that should be put behind bars.
They should not be allowed to walk on the streets of this country; but what do
you do? I’m just talking because I don’t know what is the solution to this now.
I think the only solution is for Nigerians to cry out. But I don’t know whether
we have suffered too much that we have no voice anymore to cry out, because
it’s like we are so used to wrong things that everybody just accepts it when it
comes.
Children don’t know anything; they can’t fight for themselves, so we’ll fight
for them. May God save us.
When you say may God save us, that is begging the issue. Is there no way out?
Is there nothing the Church can do?
I think what we can do and I believe we should do is to mobilize ourselves to
protest. I don’t want to go further than that until I have consulted with my
people, but I don’t think this is something we should sit down and accept.
Nigerians, across religious lines, should mobilize against this.
One of the ministers admitted a few days ago that the international community
is putting pressure on the Nigerian government to endorse gay marriage in the
country…
I can assure you it will not happen. There are many reasons it will not and
cannot happen. President Goodluck Jonathan was not voted into power by
Americans, or by the British people, or by any other person except Nigerians.
The only people that can put that kind of pressure on him are Nigerians.
Even as the British prime minister threatened to stop aid to the nation?
They can keep their aid. Nigeria does not need it. The aid that is going to be
tied to changing the structure of this country: our culture, our belief system
and our religious thinking, it’s not worth it. They should keep it, we’ll
survive without it. Like I said, I believe the National Assembly will jointly
put it together and send it to the president for his assent. And when it gets
there, we will make sure he signs it.
The political crisis in Rivers State has degenerated to the extent where
members of the House of Assembly resorted to fighting. How do you feel?
Again that is another shame. It’s as if we are heaping up shame upon shame in
Nigeria. Obviously, there are people fueling this for political gain. They want
to watch this drama play out, but they seem to forget that sometimes this kind
of thing consumes everybody. It does not end with the actors, it extends to
those who are watching and cheering on. At the end of the day, who’s going to
remain standing? We are not talking about President Jonathan or Governor
Amaechi now; we are talking about Nigeria.
My prayer is that the principal actors will look beyond themselves and think of
the overall picture of Nigeria. We don’t need this type of thing in this
nation. I plead with politicians to stop for a moment, put their politics aside
and look at Nigeria. What do we want for this country?
What is our idea about the tomorrow of this nation? Or we don’t want Nigeria to
exist? If we don’t want, why not gather those who are Nigerians to discuss it
so that we agree that we don’t want Nigeria or we agree that we want Nigeria.
To me, it’s taking us to that point. These two actors are from the same region.
I plead with them to forget themselves and think of the region where they come
from and then think of Nigeria as a nation. Nobody is bigger than Nigeria.
Source: Vanguard