Former Minister of Works, Adeseye Ogunlewe, in this no-holds-barred interview he speaks on the PDP crisis. In his opinion, the ‘New PDP’ has declared war on the ‘Old PDP’ and there should be no talk of reconciliation. Excerpts:
Let us look at what is happening in the PDP. We have a faction led by Bamanga Tukur while Kawu Baraje leads another group. Do you really believe we have a crisis here or just another family affair?
To me, definitely there is a crisis. But the definition of political crisis is what I will now address. These seven governors have shown utter disdain for Mr. President. They have shown that they have an agenda against him. Even despite the fact that they held a meeting together to vote for Jonah Jang as chairman of the Governor’s Forum, they said they did not want to vote for Jang because he would listen to Mr. President. And they wanted an independent Governor’s Forum. It means they have an agenda against the president and they have now crystallized that agenda properly by opting out of the mainstream of the PDP. I, as person, am surprised that the leadership of the party is even discussing with them with the aim of reconciliation. My own belief is that these governors have shown enough misconduct, arrogance and indiscipline against the party. So what are you reconciling? There is nothing to reconcile because the decision by these governors to walk out of the convention and form a parallel PDP is not a one-day thing, it wasn’t spontaneous or by accident, it was planned. They planned it carefully and even Oyinlola said the Shehu Musa Yar’adua centre that they used, they booked that place in advance and lied that it would be used for a wedding ceremony. So, they deliberately walked out of the convention to go and hold their meeting there. So, it was premeditated and such action has no room for reconciliation. As far as I am concerned, they have legitimate responsibility to move out of the party and form their party so that PDP will be able to assess the real enemy. If you now reconcile with them and they agree to come back into the fold, that will be more dangerous because it would be worse for them to be the enemy within, acting as fifth columnists and giving information to the opposition. And I am appealing to Mr. President; you don’t do politics by sentiment. Anybody that cannot stand the heat should get out of the kitchen. If you palliate them and allow them come back into the system, you will not be able to identify them when they hurt you during the general election. And thank God these things are happening now before the election so that the PDP can quickly deal with the problem before the general election. And Mr. President is the leader of the party as well as the Commander-in-Chief of the nation. He should not do as if he is a weak person. This is the time to fight your enemies. Anybody that is your enemy, you don’t sit down with them to discuss. They will injure you because they know that if you accept them back, you can punish or injure them for their actions. So, the battle line is drawn. He should realize that fact now and assemble his own loyal troops and let’s start the fight. I don’t have any doubt at all that we don’t have substitutes to replace these dissident governors from their states. We have them plenty. So, we should look for those substitutes now and groom them to replace the errant ones instead of holding meetings of reconciliation with them. You are even giving them more prominence, more audacity and more power by doing that.
You are against reconciliation with the New PDP, don’t you think that will weaken PDP’s power and ultimately prevent it from winning the 2015 general elections?
Believe it or not, if you show the hands of dissident early in politics, you have already shown us the type of person you are. It means you cannot be trusted. Then we now find a substitute for you. There is nobody that is omnipotent in the state. There are so many people who can replace you and even do better than you. And that is what the PDP should do. Expel them from the party, constitute caretaker committee in each of the state up to the ward level. Let them carry their people to another political party. Then Mr. President should begin his tour. Tour the state and let anybody that belongs to you come and welcome you and let us see who and who is important in the country. You cannot just slap Mr. President like that. It is totally unacceptable. Where you have grouses, you sit down and allow mature people to iron it out and settle the differences. But where you lose confidence in the presidency, then it is another matter entirely. I am not saying don’t have your own grouse, I am not saying don’t make your own points, but it is indecent for anyone to walk out on the president in an open function. Something that you yourself cannot take from anybody. A president was sitting down, you belong to the same party, and then you walk out as if the man is subservient to you, as if the man is inconsequential. That is disobedience and affront which I don’t like at all. Whatever grouse you have, you sit down and iron things out. But for you to believe that without you PDP cannot win, I am telling you it is not correct. Everybody in PDM, APC and whatever party they form will bring out their presidential candidate and we will all campaign, then Nigerians will decide and vote for whoever they like. They are not going to determine solely the future of PDP in this country. It doesn’t work out like that.
The New PDP masterminds, don’t you think they have ulterior motive in breaking away from the mainstream?
There is no doubt at all about the fact that the rebel governors have ulterior motives. In fact, that is the bottom line. Their position is that power must return to the North. And we are even suspecting that they are using ASUU to mentor that agenda of the North. This is because the incumbent ASUU President is from Katsina State and he is so recalcitrant to the extent that he is part of this power to the North agenda. He is so committed to the Northern born to rule ideology that was put into his head when he was young that he does not want to see reason why the strike should be called off despite everything the government has done to meet their demands. He is using ASUU to perpetrate an agenda that is unreasonable. They have given you some money. They now said go and verify the actual amount this annual salary cumulates into. But take this amount go and work on it for the next three months and we will put the remainder in the 2014 budget. Is the president in charge of budgeting in Nigeria? No, it is the National Assembly that has responsibility for budgeting for money. So, nobody can hold Mr. President responsible for what is happening. This is democracy and ASUU must know that under the Nigerian constitution, the power to allocate funds, the power to determine who gets what in Nigeria is the responsibility of the National Assembly and not that of Mr. President. So, ASUU should form a pressure group to lobby the National Assembly to provide the funds in the 2014 appropriation. It is a law. The president has no right whatsoever to allocate funds. The one he gave now are just money from other sources not budgeted for. How do you want a president to be allocating money that is not in the budget? And the president is saying ‘Okay, let me put it into the budget’. Even if he puts it into the budget, he has to lobby the National Assembly and the lawmakers can remove it. Why do you put somebody in that kind of position that you know he hasn’t gotten authority? All of you said you wanted democracy as well as autonomy for universities, at the same time, you are now saying ‘Mr President, give us money that is not in the budget’. You are not even lobbying the National Assembly to put it in the budget and see whether the president is going to release it or not. But it is a political scenario now and it must be resisted.
Some of the conditions the breakaway faction is giving Mr. President are that he should not contest the 2015 general election, remove Bamanga Tukur and recognize Amaechi as chairman of Governors Forum, do you feel that is asking for too much?
It is not possible. Tukur was validly elected at the national convention. It is the convention that can remove him. Even Mr. President dare not touch him because it will be unconstitutional. To now say you must do this or that is a kind of insult. Who are you to say that somebody must not contest election in Nigeria? What is this country turning into? A banana republic? It is indecent and totally uncalled for, telling me as an individual not to contest for election. Who are you? All you need to do is defeat me at the polls. You want to determine who can contest an election in Nigeria because you are a governor. Which president is going to fold his hands and allow a state governor to say that? It is the height of insult and indecency for you tell the president not to contest as if he is a school boy or under-aged. Because the man is gentle doesn’t make him a weak person. The man should fight back and I tell you nothing will happen. Whoever wants to stay will stay. If you can’t stand the heat, why not get out of the kitchen? And like I said earlier, President Jonathan should start touring states and see whether he will be welcomed or not. We are ready in Lagos State and we will mobilize over 500,000 people to go and welcome him at the airport. Let him start his campaign now so that we know who is who. He that is not for us is against us. That is politics. How can you say that the leader of your political party cannot contest? That is shameful, something even the governors themselves cannot take. He has a right to contest. If you feel you can defeat him, then go to the poll and do that. Let the man behave as a general and if he will lose, let him lose gallantly rather than asking him not to contest. He may be a gentleman, fine, but that does not come into this present situation. You have to fight the battle squarely because it is a battle for survival. This not a fight for the lily-livered. It is a fight that will separate the boys from the men and will prove who the real general is from the fake. This is when we will know who can lead Nigeria to any level and he should not shy away from anything. He must have no room for those who cannot fight and are not loyal. Let them depart.
The Chairman of your party, Tukur has threatened to declare the seats of the Senators and members of House of Representatives loyal to the New PDP vacant. Do you think he has the power to do so?
It is step by step. Once you expel the seven governors from the party, whoever wants to follow them to their party will have to leave your party. And it will be legitimate. And you cannot declare their seat vacant because it will be regarded as a faction. Under the constitution, where there is faction within any political party, anybody can move from one party to another and still retain his seat. That is what is stipulated in the Nigerian constitution that we operate now.
With the reconciliation talk on-going, do you see a peaceful resolution in the offing?
It is a wasted effort and time. Anybody that has declared wars against you can never be your friend. And you should not sleep while fire is burning on your roof. It is more dangerous to do so. In politics, once you have declared war against me, the appropriate thing is to fight back. There is no time for reconciliation. It is a popularity contest. Whoever they want to bring out as their own presidential candidate, let him come out and face Jonathan. Why should you be afraid of acrimony in politics? It is part of politics and that is why you are there. Anybody that has agreed to join politics should be prepared for war because politics is not a table tennis match. It is for bold, directional and forceful people and you have to ready to fight and be counted. Not to say you are reconciling. Reconciling with people that have disgraced you by walking out on you in public. Any talk of reconciliation is sheer waste of time.
Source: Daily Independent
