NIGERIA NEEDS A REVOLUTION, SAYS MAITAMA SULE

NIGERIA is often
regarded as the giant of Africa but that recognition seem to have been lost,
how did we lose it?

Nigeria started very well,
very well, because our founding fathers Azikiwe, Sardauna, Awolowo, even Aminu
Kano, were very good leaders, who laid a very sound foundation for Nigeria.
They were leaders, who in spite of their political differences, even religious
and tribal differences were always ready to come together in the interest of
Nigeria. 

  These were people
who accommodated, not just tolerated, one another. And all of them were ready
to place national interest above their personal interests. They respected one
another, in spite of these differences they had and Nigeria was their main
concern. These were people who went into politics to serve but not to be
served, to give but not to take. Nigeria was their main concern. And that was
why they worked together; they cooperated with one another to move the country
forward. And that was how they were able to lay a sound foundation for this
great country. It was also for this reason that Nigeria was respected and
Nigerians wherever they went in those days held their heads high; they were
admired, loved and respected. And indeed, Nigeria, because of our population
and resources, was expected to give the lead to the rest of the continent. I
still believe Nigeria is a potential leader but we need to work hard in order
to realise the potential greatness of Nigeria and we need to do a lot at home,
so that when we go out we would be respected and our leadership would be
accepted. 

   In the first
republic therefore, Nigeria was so much respected that people thought in about
fifteen to twenty years after independence, with the kind of leadership that we
started with, Nigeria would join the leading countries of the world. In deed,
there was a report that three developing countries would in fifteen to twenty
years join the most industrialized countries of the world. And these three
countries were India, Brazil and Nigeria. I think it was because of the
leadership, in those countries that today, India has made it, India is a
nuclear power, and mark you, India has got all these political, religious,
ethnic and tribal differences, one hundred times as many as we have in Nigeria.
But in spite of that, they were still able to do it. They are also poor. In
spite of the poverty in the country, because of the good leadership, they
progressed. In the field of computer technology, India is in the forefront. It
produces more doctors than any country in the world today. India manufactures
planes, cars and weapons of all kinds. India builds ships. Indeed, India has
the second fastest moving economy in the world, second only to China. 

  So India has made
it. Brazil, another of the three countries, has also made it because Brazil’s economy
is stronger than that of Britain. Brazil builds ships, manufactures planes and
cars and weapons of all kinds, and it has about the best agriculture programme
in the world. Brazil has made it too. Incidentally, Brazil and Nigeria
established their defence industries the same year. So, while Brazil is
building ships and manufacturing planes, our defence industry is yet to build a
tanker. Leadership, I think it is. 

   In 1961 or 62,
I was invited by the students of the University of Ibadan to give a convocation
lecture. And I told them; I do not know how, probably a product of intuition,
that Africa will face two or three major problems. One was leadership. Some
leaders because of their neurotic ambition, blurred vision, will want to
perpetuate their stay in office and till death do us part like church marriage.
I foresaw that way back in 1961/62; that we would have problem with leadership.
And I am concerned about leadership because everything that happens in a
country depends on the quality of the leadership. We have a saying, if a
congregation prayer goes wrong, it is the Imam leading it that spoils
it.   However, Nigeria as I said earlier was very much respected and
Nigerians were admired and respected too. What is happening today in the country
is not in our character. Ours was a decent society, a disciplined one, where
the leaders in spite of their political differences respected one another and
cooperated with one another in order to move the country forward. Today, it is
not so. Even in the family, in the past, members of a family respected one
another, the juniors obeyed and respected their seniors and constituted
authority. You might not be a member of the ruling party, still you will
respect the authority, you might disagree with the policy, but the respect was
there, even though you will express your opposition to the policy. 

  Then, there was no
corruption, or there might be little corruption. Morally, we were sound; this
permissiveness now prevalent in the society was not like then. And that is why,
I described the situation in which we are today in a negative way. The
institution of family has broken down, respect for elders and constituted
authority, which used to be a cardinal principle in our society is now at its
lowest ebb. Honesty, why it does pay has become meaningless. Symptoms of
revolts loom large in the society. 

   In short,
there is meaninglessness in philosophy, insecurity in politics, chaos in
politics, immorality in society, and corruption in economy. It was not like
that before. Our founding fathers had a dream, they have a dream that in
fifteen or twenty years, Nigeria will be truly united and we would be our
brothers’ keepers. We would build a sound economy and have political clout to
enable us to lead the rest of the countries in Africa and inspire the black
race in the world. That was their dream, that dream has not been
realised. 

   But let me
make it quite clear, although I have painted the picture black, I still remain
optimistic. This is because everything that has a beginning has an end. Only
God has no beginning and no end. I believe we would overcome, more especially
when I look at and see the crises we had in the past and we overcame. We had
Independence crisis in 1952, when Chief Enahoro moved independence motion and
members of the North were not ready to support and that brought
misunderstanding. In fact, that was the cause of the Kano riot, we overcame. We
put behind us all these misunderstandings and came together to start discussing
the independence of this country. We had the Census Crisis in 1958, it was
about to break the country, but we were able to overcome. We had the
Independence Election Crisis. In 1959, when we had the independence election,
no one party had an overall majority. There had to be a coalition. At first,
some people thought the NCNC and the Action Group; two southern political
parties will go into coalition to form the government. Some well-meaning
Nigerians advised that it will not look well as the NPC representing more than
half the population of the country and in size might feel offended and might
want to secede; so there was a negotiation.  And we ended up with the NPC
and NCNC forming a coalition government. Then we had the controversial election
of 1964, two major political parties and four other political parties refused
to participate in the elections, the NCNC, Action Group, NEPU and the UNBC.
Only the NPC and the newly formed party, UNDP by Chief Akintola went to the
polls, and we claimed to have won the elections. And of course, the President,
Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, then, refused to invite leaders of the winning parties to
form the government; that again brought some crisis. Some well meaning people
waded into the crisis, reconciled the various political parties and we ended up
with what we called a broad based government. We allowed those parties that did
not contest to go to contest in their region because it was only in the North
and West that we had elections; the East and Mid-west did not. And after the
elections, they brought their representatives to join the government. Again, we
overcame. 

    Then the
coup came in 1966, if the Prime Minister had made his statement, which he had
told both Dr. Mbadiwe and Okotie Eboh the night of the coup, that he would
declare a state of emergency in the West, where there was trouble, if he had
declared that state of emergency, removed the premier and appointed an
administrator, that might have brought to an end the crisis in the West and the
country. Unfortunately, it was that same night that he was taken away and he
lost his life. And the counter-coup six months after would have led the country
to go into pieces; again, some well meaning Nigerians waded into the crisis and
the country was saved, and Gowon became the Head of State after Ironsi and the
government continued. 

   Most
importantly, Nigeria had a civil war, nobody believed that Nigeria would be the
same again after that civil war but here we are today. By the grace of God, we
are together. So I believe that in spite of the ugly things that are happening
today, we will, by the grace of God, overcome. We shall be united, will be our
brothers’ keepers and have good governance.  And by the grace of God,
Nigeria will become strong, economically, politically, including having the
political clout to take our proper place in the comity of nations and lead the
blacks in the world and other African countries. This is my belief and God
willing, it will come to be. 

    But in
order to have that, we must have good leaders, leaders who are concerned, with
the fear of God. Leaders not rulers, leaders not looters, leaders who are
honest, have the fear of God and believe that they will stand before God one
day to account; leaders who will accept in public what they have accepted in
secret. Leaders with a vision not blurred vision, leaders who look at the lots
of the common man with the eyes of a compatriot not the eyes of the privileged
few. Leaders with fire in their belly but humanity in the heart; fire in their
belly so that they may take unpleasant but necessary decisions, humanity in
their heart so that in taking such decisions they will tamper justice with
mercy. Leaders not rulers, leaders, who know when they are no longer equal to
the exigencies of their nation, will have the prudence of handing over to
others. Not leaders who will want to perpetuate their stay in office until
death do them part, like church marriage. 

  In order to have
that kind of leaders, the youths must be prepared to have good leaders, who
have sense of justice and fair play. I foresaw this in 1962/62, what I foresaw
then was the political system. Yes, democracy is the best kind of government
but democracy is relative. The cultural parameters of the people should
determine their style of democracy. Yes, we are practicing democracy in Nigeria
and indeed in Africa but the democracy we are practicing is Eurocentric not
Afrocentric. We need to take into consideration our own culture and determine
our style of democracy. The most important thing in democracy is consultation
and doing justice to people. We can do it, Nyerere did it. He introduced what
he called Ujama, African kind of democracy and he brought all the people
together as the political system was able to do away and eradicate tribal
differences, religion, and unite the country and they moved forward and enjoyed
relative peace more than any country in Africa then. That was the African kind
of democracy. He called it Ujama, I call it Afrocracy. 

   However, it
may be difficult because we have been so used to this way and kind of democracy
and may take time to convince people to agree to revisit the past and bring out
our own type of democracy. Nevertheless, whatever kind of government it is, if
we have good leadership, it will work and succeed. So we should look for good
leaders. 

Like you said,
there was this prediction that in fifteen, twenty years after independence
Nigeria should be a shining light around the world, respected around the world,
but a few years after independence, she was in the middle of a civil war, where
did Nigeria miss the mark? 

    That was
where we missed the mark, the first coup. Our leaders then, yes, we made
mistakes, but we had made mistakes before and were able to correct them. We
came together and moved forward. Those people who staged the original coup, if
they had given us time, we would have overcome because as I said, the Prime
Minister was about to make a statement in the parliament to declare a state of
emergency in the West, which would have brought to an end the crisis then in
the country. We were not allowed. So that hurt the good leadership that we
started with. The Prime Minister, Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Nehu were regarded
as the best leaders in the developing world, men of integrity, both moral and
financial, men who were only concerned with the welfare of their people. Men,
who wanted to see the reputation of their country kept high, these were the
leaders. So while other countries continued with the right leadership, which
was why they made progress, we had the original leadership cut short and that
was the beginning.

Are you saying that
the military led us into this crisis?

    Yes, as
I said, if the military had not staged the coup in 1966 and had given us time,
we would have overcome the crisis as we overcame the previous crises. 

How did you come
into government and national service?

  It was through
election. In 1954, I contested and won election in Kano city and went as the
first representative of Kano city in the House of Representatives in Lagos.
Five years later, in 1959, I re-contested not in the city, but in one of the
constituencies in the rural areas and having won, I was appointed a minister. I
was appointed the Minister of Mines and Power. Initially, the Prime Minister
wanted me to be the Foreign Minister after independence. As you know, we had
election about a year before independence. Indeed, that was why he was
preparing me for it, sending me to attend international conferences. I used to
represent the Prime Minister at conferences and that was how I got myself to
Addis Ababa in June 1960, attending the conference of independent African
states, at which conference, I brought the suggestion that the two warring
factions, the Monrovia group, which was our group and Casablanca bloc, the
radicals led by Nkrumah should please forget their differences and come
together to form a continental government with a view to bringing about
understanding. It was at that conference that the Nigerian delegations made
this suggestion that these two groups should come together to form a
continental organisation in the likes of the organisation of America states,
with a permanent secretariat and Secretary General and that was how the OAU was
conceived. After that, there was consultation, a year or two after the OAU came
into being.     

What was the
motivation when you contested?

  It was the love of
the country. Since my school days, I had always wanted and prayed that I find
myself in the position of serving people. There was no talk of politics then in
the North but in the South there were political movements. When I was in the
college, we used to steal the West African Pilot into the school because the
school authorities did not allow us to read the paper because of the Political
content. I became interested. When I left school and had my training as a
teacher, I went to Lagos on educational excursion in 1947. And on my way back
from Lagos, we traveled on the same train with Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe; in fact, we
were in the same coach. And he engaged me in talks and I was very much
impressed. Of course, I became more convinced that I should do something
politically. So when I returned home and started teaching, I did not start
political movement or activities, I started with Kano Citizens Association. I
wanted the citizens of Kano to be united first, charity, begins at home. You
only start from the known to the unknown, the familiar to the unfamiliar. It
was that Kano Citizens Organisation that amalgamated with similar organisations
in the North like Sokoto Youth Development Organisation formed by Shagari, who
was a schoolteacher too and Arewa Youth formed by Mallam Gusau in Kaduna, the
Bauchi Discussion Circuit formed by Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Amino Kano
and another similar organisation in Zaria formed by Dr. Dikko. We had our
annual meetings of the Northern Teachers Association in Zaria and it was there
that the idea came to us, as there was an awakening that these organisations
springing up should come together to form one organisation, cultural though,
for the North. And that was how NPC came to be. It was a cultural organisation
at first. It was in June 1949 that we launched the NPC in Kaduna, with Dr.
Dikko; mark you, a Christian as the first President of NPC. The northerners
elected a Christian in 1949 as their leader. It was later that NEPU came into
being because some people broke out from NPC to form NEPU. After that, NPC
became a political party and Dr. Dikko as a civil servant had to resign because
as a civil servant he should not take part in politics. 

  So I had always been
interested in politics since my school days, and people like Dr. Azikiwe and
Mallam Aminu Kano, through their speeches and poems, which were politically
inclined, encouraged me. 

   After the 1959
election, the Prime Minister appointed me the minister of Mines and Power. And
I was in charge of oil and other minerals including electricity. I succeeded
Ribadu, who was before me minister of Mines and Power. I saw the development of
oil industry in Nigeria. Indeed, with all humility, I am yet to see anything
new in the oil industry, we started it. Shell was the only company; it had
complete monopoly of oil exploration in those days. And on the advice of my
Chief Petroleum Engineer, a fine man, an honest man, Chief Feyide, and of
course, the support and encouragement of my Permanent Secretary, another decent
gentleman, Musa Daggash, we fought Shell to surrender part of its concessions
to give to other companies. This is because we argued that we must encourage
competition within the industry. We could not allow one company to be
operating. We had a lot of resistance from them but eventually we succeeded and
they surrendered part of their concession and we invited other companies. And
these companies came and took up concessions. Then we discovered that the new
companies belong to the same club as Shell. Chief Feyide again advised me that
we must go to Italy and invite an Italian oil company to come to take
concession because it was the only company that was not in their club. However,
when we went to Italy, and met Mr. Pate, the chairman of the Italian National
Oil Company, he warned me, saying if I was not afraid of the powerful oil
companies, they could destroy me, they could finish me. I said no, I am not
afraid of them, I said God made me and only God can unmake me. All I wanted
from you sir is to give us better offers so that I can justify my invitation to
you because I know as at now, they (Shell and others) are going round
campaigning and lobbying to make sure that you do not come in. But if you come with
a better offer, I can go to the cabinet to argue and justify my invitation. He
agreed to come and that was how AGIP came. And they gave better offers, higher
royalties and offered us participation if we wanted, offered us training and on
and so forth. When there was this question of refinery, I built the first
refinery in Port Harcourt, I commissioned it because my argument then was, as
an oil producing country we must have refineries. How can we produce oil and
send it abroad. Then, we discovered something, if we wanted to get the maximum
benefits from oil we must employ qualified people, qualified oil lawyers,
accountants, and engineers. But these oil workers were highly paid by the oil
companies, if you bring them into the ministry, they will work under the
permanent secretary, and they will not earn more than the permanent secretary.
And a permanent secretary’s salary was chicken feed in the oil industry. So we
decided to take the oil section from the ministry and established an
independent organisation. We formed the National Oil Corporation (NOC) and gave
them the independence and allowed them to employ the people of the right
caliber and remained the supervising ministry. Later the NOC became the
NNPC. 

   I got Nigeria
into OPEC, again, I had problem with the oil companies. They did not want
Nigeria to join OPEC. I remember some of these companies told the Prime
Ministers that members of OPEC were socialists inclined and that Nigeria was a
respected country and should not join clubs of troublemakers. Of course, I
explained to the Prime Minister that OPEC was an organisation of oil producing
and developing countries and Nigeria is an oil producing and a developing
country. Members of OPEC came together to discuss their common problems and
seek solution to them. Secondly, if oil companies and buyers would come
together in their own interest, why should we the sellers not come
together? 

  There was one
interesting thing, which unfortunately was being misunderstood. I remember the
Eastern Region then, our oil exploration was onshore not offshore, but then the
Eastern Region got to know that most of our oil was from offshore, they came
with the argument that territorial waters should belong to the region. And I
could understand because if territorial waters belonged to the region, all the
resources in the water would belong to the region. I argued against it because
you cannot claim something that you cannot defend. You have no Navy to defend
the waters. 

  Secondly, it was not
the practice anywhere in the world. Territorial waters belong to the central
authority not the regional government. However, I had to appoint a committee
comprising of representatives of the regional governments and the federal
government to go round the world, visit several oil producing countries and
find out what is obtained in those countries in respect of territorial waters.
The committee did and came back and reported unanimously that territorial
waters belong to the central authority.  

    The
interesting thing was that the Prime Minister was NPC, so also the minister of
Mines and Power and we were in charge of oil but then when the people in the
Niger Delta decided to form a political party, which they called the Niger
Delta People’s Congress, they went into alliance with NPC. They did not go into
alliance with NCNC, the party in power in their region, neither Action Group,
the party in the Southwest, but they formed alliance with the ruling party from
the North. Why? I believe the reason is that the Prime Minister never bothered
himself about production except what benefits it would bring to the people.
During my seven years in that ministry 1959-66, not once did the Prime Minister
send anybody to me, his relations, friends, colleagues or companies he was
interested to give a license to, a concession or oil well. Neither did he have
one nor did I have one. How could I when my master did not have one? Indeed,
when the Prime Minister was killed in the coup of 1966, he had no kobo in his
bank account. And in all humility, I had to borrow money from my permanent
secretary and a friend in Lagos to send my family home. I had no bank account
because I got my salary in cash. But we enjoyed it.

   It was a
different Nigeria, I, a young minister, a northerner, member of the NPC, will
drive myself in the evening, I had no orderly, I never had one. I will leave my
driver back home and drive myself into the city of Lagos, and my friends in
Lagos will stop me in the middle of the street and force me out of the car and
we would start embracing one another singing and dancing, omo pupa o, omo pupa
lemi fe, (I want a beautiful fair lady, it is she I would marry). Those were
the days. Lagos was a Yoruba town; the Action Group controlled it, yet, I was
an NPC member, a northerner feeling like a Lagos man. They use to call me
Onikoyi of Ikoyi, the Bada of Lagos. Those were the days, we were brothers. I
used to tell people that in those good days, parties in Lagos were incomplete
without some of us. Benson, GM Johnson, Samuel Adewole- the boy is good, Prince
Sijuwade, now Oni of Ife and my humble self.  The girls will refuse to go
to parties if we were not there. And nobody thought of anybody’s tribal,
religious or political background. Those were the days. May God grant that
those days come back again!           

 How was it
coming back to Kano prior to the civil war?

  Yes, after the coup,
I came back to Kano. Six months after that coup, there was a counter coup,
which brought Gowon to power and he created states, Kano State was one of them
and our first military governor was Audu Bako. He appointed me commissioner for
Local Government later he moved me to Ministry of Forestry, Cooperative and
Community Development. From there, I went to the Ministry of Information. It
was from Information that I went back to Lagos as the first chairman of
National Council for Arts and Culture. This was because in 1975, I was elected
by the then Nigeria Arts Council as the President. I was not an artiste but
they argued that they wanted a rallying figure and they knew I was interested
in culture. So, Segun Olusola, Mapo Rabo, Wole Soyinka and the rest of them,
they were the artistes and they elected me President of the Nigeria Arts
Council. And I toured round Nigeria in my capacity as the President of Nigeria
Arts Council, believe you me, I discovered to my pleasant surprise that the
so-called different cultures in Nigeria are after all, basically the same. It
was the same respect for elders, morality, honesty and even the setting of the
compounds were the same! I discovered that even the household utensils were the
same, cooking pots, grinding stones, water pots. I discovered that there are
more things that are common to us in the so-called different cultures than
those that are different. We were doing very well and with that organisation,
we had hope that we would really promote unity in the country. And of course we
started doing things, but which made the government uncomfortable. Every year,
you know these artistes, they are in the media and everywhere and at the end of
every year, I will issue a presidential address to the nation, as if I were the
president of the country. And you know some of them were powerful writers. One
day, we called for a culture revolution. We called for a revolution and the
government became worried. They said, ‘if we arrest them, we would create more
trouble, if we leave them, we would not feel comfortable. The best thing is to
say that this organisation is very important and their aim is very good, so
government would like to take it over’. So they took it over and changed it to
the National Council for Arts and Culture and made me the first chairman of the
council.  

    
Not long after, Gowon was overthrown; Murtala said he did not like me to be
doing dancing and singing. And I said it is not; culture is much more than what
he thinks, but he did not understand and did not agree, as he said that he has
a better job for me. He wanted me to be the ombudsman, the first Public
Complaint Commissioner. So l left the National Council for Arts and Culture to
be the first Public Complaint Commissioner, until 1978 when they decided to
hand-over power. 

You talked about
the important role of the leader in getting things right, are the followers
doing their bit?

  For so long as the
youths will continue to succumb to the greedy politicians, there would be no
change. The youths must realise that they are the future. You are the future
leaders, the future is yours. You can make it or mar it. If you decide to mar
it by accepting few things, collecting money from politicians, so that they
will achieve their selfish aims, you will be marring your future and you will
inherit an inglorious future. If you make up your mind to make the future and
refuse to succumb to the machinations of these greedy politicians, you will
pave way for a great Nigeria and you will inherit a glorious future. The youths
are the vehicles and answer, the solutions to the problems, the vehicles of
change and the vanguard of revolution. 

   Though, they
need elders to guide them because the best organisation is a combination of the
old and the young. You need the maturity, experience and wisdom of the old as
well as the dynamic and radicalism of the youths. So the youths, even though
they are the future, they need the advice and guidance of the old, but
responsible and reliable old people. Not undesirable, waste product of
humanity. 

  So we can do it and
bring about the change but the youths must make up their mind and they must get
away with this idea of new breed, new breed, which got into the heads of some
of our young people and made them think they can do it alone. You cannot, even
the leading countries in the world have some powerful old people behind the
scene to guide them, advise them, even scold them at times. That is the secret
of their success. Our youths must learn that they need elders. In the past,
before the White Man came to our shores, we used to have Council of Elders, old
people who are not interested in holding any position, but are interested in
the country and the future of the country and they gave advice to the
authorities. We no longer have that because we now have a new policy of new
breed, the old breed must be done away with because they have exhausted their
usefulness. But new breed without the old breed will breed greed. 

But when I called for a
revolution, let me make it quite clear, that I am not calling for a bloody
revolution, but a cultural revolution. I am calling for Mahatma Gandhi kind of
revolution, non-violent resistors.  And we can make it.  A good leader
will inspire his people as people take cues from their leaders. When Murtala
came into power, within six months he started giving this country a sense of
direction. Did he kill anybody? When Buhari was in power, in eighteen months,
he instilled discipline into the society, he raised the moral tone of the
society, he fought corruption and he was giving the country a sense of
direction, did he kill anybody? So you do not have to kill, once you have a
good leader, who will lead by example, people will follow and the society will
change. 

What is your
position on rotational presidency?

  As far as I am
concerned, we have accepted to adopt a federal system of government, we have
agreed to practice democracy; we should therefore allow democracy to work. Let
anybody from anywhere, whatever religion or tribe he belongs to contest the
election. I do not care who leads the country, so long as he would do justice
and fair play, justice and fair play. These are the things I am looking for.
This question of, ‘this time is my turn, that time is your turn,’ will
encourage a lot of things, corruption and bastardised democracy, because once I
am there and I know that I will be there for the next few years and after that
somebody will take over, I will make sure that I entrench my own people. In
trying to entrench my own people, I will also make sure that if it is possible
I stay on so that the people I put in power will not be removed after I might
have gone. It is human nature. Leave the thing open, Nigerians want the best and
only the best is good for Nigeria. Let him come from the West, East, Niger
Delta or the North, anywhere, if he is good, and the people accept him, if he
will do justice and fair play. 

    Behind
every crisis in the world, not only in Nigeria, is injustice and the solution
to this is justice. I do not care about where the person ruling comes from; I
care about his sense of justice and fair play. A good leader is someone with
the fear of God, who will not cheat people or kill people because he believes
he would stand before God one day to account for what he is doing. A leader
that will accept in public what he accepted in secret. You talk of one Nigeria,
but when you get to your room you tell your brother, do not trust him, he is
not from our tribe or religion. Is that how we can build true Nigeria? We want
leaders who will not steal or lie, but with honour.

In tackling
corruption, what suggestions will you give?

  It is quite easy. So
long as you take the man who stole to court and he gets away, we cannot fight
corruption. How many people have gone to the court after having been found to
have accumulated ill gotten wealth, how many have got away. What we should do
if we really want to deal with corruption is to introduce the policy of ‘how
did you come about it’. When you get into office, you declare your assets and
at the end of your tenure you declare your assets. We know your salaries and
allowances. We would then see the difference, so explain, how you came about
this. In the absence of explanation, you will forfeit it to the government. You
came into government with two houses, now you have got ten or twelve houses,
how did you come about it.  In the absence of explanation, you forfeit
them. This will discourage other people from stealing because what is the use
wasting time stealing money and only to be confiscated at the snap of the
fingers. The only way to deal with corruption in Nigeria is to introduce the
culture of ‘how did you come about
it’.       

  It is also easy to
deal with corruption if you have good leaders but if the leaders themselves are
thieves they will give room for their colleagues to find a way out to
steal. 

Every region is
claiming to be marginalised, what is the way out of this endless fixation?

  If we have a good
leader, he will take the country as his own constituency, though we would
always have these complaints. In the past, for instance, we used to have an
economic council headed by the Prime Minister; all the Premiers of the regions
were members with their economic ministers. The economic adviser then was Dr.
Pius Okigbo, an Igbo man. He was appointed by the Prime Minister, a northerner.
I remember that there was a time when there was an argument in the council, all
the Premiers of the region were on one side; the argument became so heated. And
Ribadu was furious when the Prime Minister asked Dr Okigbo to give his
professional advice. In giving his advice, he supported the Premiers. Ribadu
did not take it kindly; he wondered why Okigbo should do that since he was the
Federal Government Economic Adviser instead of supporting the stand of the
Federal government. But the Prime Minister said Dr Okigbo was not adviser to
the Federal Government but Economic Adviser to the Government of the Federation,
therefore he accepted his view. 

    Then,
when they met and discussed, they came up with all embracing, comprehensive
economic programmes for Nigeria, the regional Premiers then went back to their
regions to implement their sections. There was therefore, a comprehensive, all
embracing one economic programme for the entire nation, agreed by all the
leaders. And there was no question of maginalisation then. And justice and fair
play were the perquisites of development.

  Looking at
our country, we are blessed with resources, natural and human, yet we have not
accelerated in terms of development.

  During the civil
war, we were sent out to campaign for our cause. I went to the United States
and I remembered Shehu Shagari went to the Scandinavian countries.  When
we returned, we compared notes before submitting our reports to General Gowon,
the Head of State then. And Shagari told me that he met a friend, a common
friend of ours. And the man told him that ‘we know why you are out; you have
come to seek for support and favour for your cause. But let me tell you, we do
not care about you, all we cared about are your resources, if we could get
robots to exploit your resources for us to develop our economy, we would not
mind a lot of you being eliminated. But you Nigerians are a peculiar case, you
have the population, resources and we know your resources more than you do know
about them. All you need in Nigeria is about a fairly long period of say ten to
twenty years; you will be able to make it. You will become a very strong
economy, will join the economic powers but you need this period of
uninterrupted peace.   But we would not allow you because if you have
this period of peace and stability, you will use your brains and Nigerians have
got brains, you will work hard and you are hard working people, you will
exploit your resources and you have them in abundance and you will develop your
economy. And developing your economy needs a market, you have no problem
looking for a market, Nigeria’s population alone will serve the market, in
addition the entire West African region will be your market. And if that
happens, you will be a torn in our flesh, we would lose our source of raw
materials because you will be using them in your factories, we would lose our
market because you will be the market and also get other markets in West
Africa. So even after your civil war, we would create one problem after another
so that you may not enjoy peace and stability that will enable you to develop
and become such a strong country.’

    So it is
up to us. 

How do we tackle
the issue of Boko Haram?

   The Northern
Elders Forum went into the matters and visited the places affected, we spoke to
the people, we wrote our report, we went to see Mr. President, we submitted our
report, he saw us the second time and that was when he set up this Committee
for Amnesty and they are working. My belief is, what the tongue can undo, let
not the sword be used. We formed this organisation to help government to find
peace not only in the North but also across the country. I do not want this
matter to be internationalised. It is our own domestic affair and we shall do
it. We must help the government, running a Nigerian government, I know, is very
difficult. Nigeria is a difficult country to rule, whoever rules Nigeria should
be pitied, rather than being envied because it is like a silk gown that you
fold one sleeve, the other sleeve unfold itself. We formed this group in order
to be partners in progress with the government, to find solution locally to
this problem of Boko Haram and by the grace of God, we are beginning to
succeed. This time is not for pointing accusing fingers. The question now is,
what is wrong and not who is wrong, that is the way to find peace and we would
find peace by the grace of God and we are beginning to find it.

   Let Nigerians
remember one thing that, Nigeria, we have always been told is a great country
but I say it is a great country potentially, we need to work hard to realise
the potential greatness of the country and we have to respect one another and
love one another. We have to do justice to one another as brothers and sisters.
After all, Nigerians are very religious people. I sometimes say we are the most
religious around the world, both the Christians and the Muslims. 

   The Nigerian
Christians are more religious than their counterparts in other Christendom, and
so are the Nigerian Muslims, they are more religious than their counterparts in
other Muslims world. And both religions teach moral values, peace with your God
and mind. Peace with your fellow man is the teaching of Christianity. The word
Islam is peace and the most important aspect of the Islamic worship after the
belief in one God is the salat, at the end of your prayer, you say
Asamalalekun, which is, peace be unto you all, irrespective of your religion or
tribe. So both religions teach peace. Love thy neighbour as you love thyself,
my neighbour, it was not qualified. Anybody could be your neighbour. Be at
peace with your fellow man, anybody could be your fellow man. 

  In Islam, the holy
prophet of Islam said the angel Gabriel emphasised the importance of good
neighbourliness so much that there might be a revelation from God that a
neighbour could inherit a neighbour. Be your brothers’ keeper is a common
teaching to both religions and there is no religion of God that says you should
pressurise somebody to embrace it. The Christians are taught, if you go out to
teach the word of God, and they refuse to listen, pick up your shoes, dust them
and leave them in peace.  On the other hand, Islam says, there is no
compulsion in religion; it is a matter of conviction. But more importantly, the
essence of every religion of God is love. The Christians say it does not matter
how much you may worship God, even if your worship moves mountains, you will
not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you have love in your heart. Islam says
if you want to get the blessings and forgiveness of God, you must have love in
your heart. Somebody asked, love for my kind, no, love for mankind. Indeed, a Muslim
saying said this, I see myself as a Christian, sometimes as a Jew, in my heart
is Islam, but love is my religion, love is my faith. Love is what is lacking in
Nigeria and that is taught in all the religions that we practice. Let us preach
love, teach love and live love, if there is love we would not kill one another,
and cheat one another. If there were love, we would help one another, and not
be unjust to one another, love, love, let there be
love.                             

What was growing up
like for you?

  It was like anybody
else, though my life is full of ups and downs. I had always wanted to serve
because even before I went to elementary school, I used to sweep my quarter and
the mosque. And I like doing that and helping my friends. I was a child born
with the silver spoon but when my family had problems, at that time, we could
not even eat. I saw all this in my younger days. 

   I went to the
higher school from the elementary school and my father’s master to whom he was
a favourite died and that was when we lost everything. It was difficult. There
was a time when we had a holiday, I came home on holiday without anything
except my uniform and that uniform was nothing but only my caftan, no trousers,
no gown. That was why when I left the school; the first thing I thought was to
help my Dad, who treated me very well before things went bad. And I realised
that it helped. Every succeeding year became better. You will come across all
sorts of difficulties, trials, tribulations and so on. Try to pray to overcome.
Luckily, by the grace of God, I like praying and listening to people who are
pious. 

   And in the
school then, I came in touch with all sorts of people, not only tribes from
Nigeria but also races from outside Nigeria. I schooled with Arabs and Lebanese
and of course I am a Kano man, a cosmopolitan place. So right from my youth, I
became a Nigerian. I feel comfortable in the mist of any tribal group. I
believe that this coming together of different tribes is a blessing. 

   Kano is what
it is today because of its cosmopolitan nature, it is the most advanced and
progressive part of Northern Nigeria because all the major tribes in Nigeria,
outside their tribal enclaves have their largest concentration in Kano and we
have been living together, interacting with one another.