Former National Chairman of Peoples Democratic Party, (PDP), Dr. Ahmadu Ali loves stoking controversy. In this chat , Ali who is a delegate to the ongoing National Conference spoke on a number of issues including the coup that brought late military leader, Gen Sani Abachi to the saddle. He claimed that the acclaimed winner of the 1993 presidential election, late Chief M.K.O Abiola invited Abacha to take over government.
As a former National Chairman of the PDP, where do you see the party landing with the sort of challenge it is getting from the APC?
It is good we are getting some challenge from the APC and that is the beauty of democracy. You cannot be dancing with one leg all the time, because in the political terrain of Nigeria, it will appear that PDP is always dancing on one leg. There is no second leg. Now that we have APC, it means there are two legs in the political system. You will now watch to know which leg dances better than the other. We are very happy that that has happened. I remember during our campaigns in 2007, General Obasanjo was worried that it was only PDP that was campaigning on air, on the road, on the sea. There was no other party and we got worried and had to find out what was happening to ANPP and later on they got up and started campaigning. We were happy. So, it is good these people have come up and we will deal with them adequately.
It is surprising to hear that you were worried that there was no opposition. Why?
Yes, we were and that is the beauty of it . You know if no one is contesting a position with you, you won’t enjoy it. But when someone comes up, he comes with contrary views and people will weigh them. We are not worried about APC. The way they brought themselves together, is the same way they will disintegrate. They are already on the way to disintegrating, but that is neither here nor there. The fact is that we are happy they are there.
But are you happy with the sort of response PDP is giving to the APC?
Which response?
The way PDP has been responding to APC?
Well, I think whatever is coming from the National Working Committee is the correct response. I am talking as an individual member now, not as a member of the committee, but in this conference, I am representing the PDP.
If you were in the PDP executive, is there anything you would have done differently at this time?
I wouldn’t know. I am no longer there. That is all I know.
Some people have canvassed restructuring Nigeria at this conference. Do you buy their arguments?
Yes, I do in the sense that we have to look into the system. Are we on the right track? What motivated the British to introduce the parliamentary system was because that was the system they knew back in their country. Now, what informed the military to guide us into the presidential system is because of the unitary formation in the military where the order comes from above and down. No contrary opinion was tolerated. That was how we landed in the presidential system. But having operated both, I think we are now in a better position to see which one could be better. I will tell you that this system is very expensive.
So, which system would you go for?
Until we come to that debate. The committees are yet to come out. But I tell you, this is a very expensive system. Things have escalated so much. I have been senator on three different occasions. I was elected into the senate three times. My pay packet then was N1000 a month as a senator. In the first senate, I took a car loan from the National Assembly and the deductions were made in such a way that you would have paid up in four years. So, my take home pay actually was slightly above N600. We had allowances for our aides for office upkeep. But again, that was not up to a thousand Naira a month. But now, what you hear is mind boggling; that senators are on about N75 million a quarter. For goodness sake, we cannot continue like this. It is a very expensive system.
If you were to slash senators pay what would you bring it down to?
I cannot tell you that one. I cannot tell you what they should earn because that depends on many indices now. You need the experts to sit down and work it out. But that is where we are now; it is expensive.
As someone who has been in government, what specifically would you like to change in the presidential system?
I cannot tell you. I have told you to wait until we get to the committee stage. I have my views and will not tell you in advance.
You stirred a controversy on the floor when you argued that the south should stop contesting the population of the north?
That is a fact. You cannot run away from it. You see, the problem in this country is that we keep behaving like ostriches. We can’t continue to behave like the ostrich. Lord Lugard in his hand over note said he met the population of the whole of southern Nigeria at “eight point something million and that of northern Nigeria at nine point something million”. At that time, northern Cameroon had not yet voted to join northern Nigeria. Now, how come that their population in the north can be less than that of the south if there has not been any major catastrophe in the north? It is not possible. Remember, they are the only people who marry more than one wife and they keep producing children. Down south, majority of you believe in one man one wife because of your religious beliefs. So, how can you ever arrive at the population of the north being lower than that of the south? It is not possible. Let us be practical.
But do you agree that the country has not really had a good census?
We have been having good census. The issue is that our political inclinations and the prisms by which we view the figures are always skewed. That is our problem. I took part in the 1952 census. I was in secondary school then. The District Officer made me a spare enumerator. It meant that if an enumerator fell sick, I would be posted there to do his job, but I was always running around with him supervising when the census was going on. And you can see that cultures differ.
There are places where people won’t tell you how many children they have. You know that place in Nigeria. I was a medical doctor in that part of the country. You ask people how many children they have and they tell you it is God that gives them children and that they don’t count them. You suggest four and they say ok, write four. You say six? And they say better. That makes it difficult for you to get the actual figure. These are things in our cultural systems that need educating the people about. Up north, they don’t have such problem. The problem they have is probably that they don’t know the significance of census. The Fulani man will not halt his cattle and wait where you first enumerated him. He will keep going to wherever he can find grass for his cattle.
Outside the census, we have heard delegates talk about the six years single term tenure . Will you go for it?
We have not reached there yet, but let me tell you. One man said it here that the countries we compare ourselves to, Malaysia, China, Indonesia all had systems where their leaders stayed long enough to push through developmental policies. On our part, our temperament has shown we cannot tolerate anybody staying that long. You see the difference. I was in the cabinet in 1975 as a minister and we had what we called a development plan.
At the end of the five years development plan, if any project is not completed, it is rolled over to the next phase of the development plan and the new plan also exists. So, whatever you started has to be completed. Shagari also attempted to run the development plan, but we soon abandoned it all. What we had, with the military interregnum, was that people came in and abandoned projects that were ongoing. That is money gone down the drain. The new leaders turned their back on old projects and started their own.
And soon, they are overthrown and the projects they started are also abandoned by the new leaders. This is wastage. You cannot progress that way. No doubt, we have seen many of our faults. The military we had was not the military that had enough patriotism in them.
They overthrew governments based on either personal or tribal interests. In Indonesia or Malaysia we are talking about, they overthrew governments but held on to the programmes the previous administration had. They executed same and built on them. We kept abolishing whatever anybody had done just because they were overthrown.
By this, you are blaming Nigeria’s woes on your constituency, the military.Correct?
Well, I am not placing the blame on them but that is what we have now come to see with the benefit of hindsight. When it was happening, you all were clapping. Whichever military administration that came in, you clapped. Another one overthrows that one and again, you went out clapping. This is what we kept doing in this country like yo-yo.
Source: Sun
