Former
chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Colonel Ahmadu Ali (retd) has
some harsh words for Yoruba people of South West. According to him, the Yoruba
are “ungrateful kind of people,” who do not appreciate what others have done
for them. He is particularly pained that the Yoruba do not appreciate what
former President Olusegun Obasanjo did for them.
chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Colonel Ahmadu Ali (retd) has
some harsh words for Yoruba people of South West. According to him, the Yoruba
are “ungrateful kind of people,” who do not appreciate what others have done
for them. He is particularly pained that the Yoruba do not appreciate what
former President Olusegun Obasanjo did for them.
The former chairman of the PDP also said that the Nigerian
Governors’ Forum (NGF) does not constitute a threat to the powers and authority
of the President.
Governors’ Forum (NGF) does not constitute a threat to the powers and authority
of the President.
In this interview, Ali revealed how those he described as
self-appointed Yoruba leaders have disappointed him. He spoke on these and
other issues.
self-appointed Yoruba leaders have disappointed him. He spoke on these and
other issues.
Excerpts:
Is it true you wanted to be chairman of PDP Board of Trustee?
Yes.
What happened?
I was not chosen.
Is it a matter of choosing a candidate or something the party
does through election?
does through election?
It is more of choosing than election. At that level, it is like
that. Board of Trustee comprises old men and experienced people that we don’t
think it is necessary for people to cast their votes. When the party’s top
hierarchy met, they decided it should be Tony Anenih. That is all.
that. Board of Trustee comprises old men and experienced people that we don’t
think it is necessary for people to cast their votes. When the party’s top
hierarchy met, they decided it should be Tony Anenih. That is all.
Is it true that the BoT is advisory?
It is advisory.
So, the advice of BoT may be taken or be ignored?
Yes. It may be taken or be rejected. Anybody you advise has a
right to take or reject your advice. They are to advise either the party or the
legislature. It is all advisory. Nothing more.
right to take or reject your advice. They are to advise either the party or the
legislature. It is all advisory. Nothing more.
What is the function of the National Working Committee?
That one is like our executive headed by the national chairman.
They do the day-to-day running of the party. So, it is the national chairman
that has the executive powers.
They do the day-to-day running of the party. So, it is the national chairman
that has the executive powers.
What of the National Executive Committee (NEC)?
The NEC is like the parliament of the party that broadly shapes
the policy, which the National Working Committee and the national chairman
carry out. The national chairman and the National Working Committee produce
memoranda and present to the National Executive Committee for approval before
they can act.
the policy, which the National Working Committee and the national chairman
carry out. The national chairman and the National Working Committee produce
memoranda and present to the National Executive Committee for approval before
they can act.
Where does the national convention come in?
National convention is the ultimate authority of the party.
Whatever the National Executive Committee has approved and given out for
execution by the national chairman and his executive and if it has
fundamentally affected the constitution of the party, the national convention
has the final authority to ratify it or reject it.
Whatever the National Executive Committee has approved and given out for
execution by the national chairman and his executive and if it has
fundamentally affected the constitution of the party, the national convention
has the final authority to ratify it or reject it.
What do you say to the
powers wielded by governors during your era as chairman of the party?
powers wielded by governors during your era as chairman of the party?
Does the Nigeria Governors’ Forum wield any powers? What powers
do they wield?
do they wield?
It is believed that the governors decided who should be your
successor, as we were told that PDP governors interviewed all aspirants for the
position and they settled for one of them…
successor, as we were told that PDP governors interviewed all aspirants for the
position and they settled for one of them…
They did not interview them. The governors played a major role
in that they were interested and they showed their interest. It gave the
impression as if they are doing it all. You know, you can have a pressure
group, if the BoT had been subjected to the public, the pressure from
interested groups would be great. The constitution says it is only members of
that board that can choose their chairman. They could decide to do it by voting
or by consensus. It is left to them.
in that they were interested and they showed their interest. It gave the
impression as if they are doing it all. You know, you can have a pressure
group, if the BoT had been subjected to the public, the pressure from
interested groups would be great. The constitution says it is only members of
that board that can choose their chairman. They could decide to do it by voting
or by consensus. It is left to them.
Many Nigerians are saying that the Nigerian Governors’ Forum is
contesting for power with the executive.
contesting for power with the executive.
I said there is nothing like that. They (governors) are paper
tigers. The Governors’ Forum is a paper tiger. It is just about powers and
counter powers, sort of crossing each other’s path. What can the Governors’
Forum do? It is in any constitution? It is not in the Nigerian constitution and
it is not in our party’s constitution either. So, they are just a pressure
group of people who are consulted on things in the economic council and they
feel they must provide a pressure group to have their way. That is all. They
are nothing. I don’t know why anybody is worried about them.
tigers. The Governors’ Forum is a paper tiger. It is just about powers and
counter powers, sort of crossing each other’s path. What can the Governors’
Forum do? It is in any constitution? It is not in the Nigerian constitution and
it is not in our party’s constitution either. So, they are just a pressure
group of people who are consulted on things in the economic council and they
feel they must provide a pressure group to have their way. That is all. They
are nothing. I don’t know why anybody is worried about them.
It is believed that they control the national delegates that
vote at the National Executive Committee (NEC) meetings.
vote at the National Executive Committee (NEC) meetings.
Anybody can control delegates. Some youths, PDP Youth Vanguard,
PDP Good Governance Initiative and so many others control votes.
PDP Good Governance Initiative and so many others control votes.
Control votes at the National Executive Committee (NEC)
meetings?
meetings?
No. Control votes at the NEC? Governors don’t. The way the
NEC is composed, the governors cannot control anything. Sometimes, they make a
contribution and they are shut down. They are ordinary members and they are all
equal
NEC is composed, the governors cannot control anything. Sometimes, they make a
contribution and they are shut down. They are ordinary members and they are all
equal
Is it true that members of the BoT can vote at NEC meetings?
Normally, being advisory, they are there by virtue of being
members of BoT. So, they actually or I should say in actual fact, they have no
voting right. But they have power of suggestion, which is very, very strong.
When they speak, you find that it is from all and sundry who come from all over
the federation. They now get more in-depth into what is happening. Normally,
they don’t know some of the things happening.
members of BoT. So, they actually or I should say in actual fact, they have no
voting right. But they have power of suggestion, which is very, very strong.
When they speak, you find that it is from all and sundry who come from all over
the federation. They now get more in-depth into what is happening. Normally,
they don’t know some of the things happening.
Some powerful members of your party told me that BoT members
have right to vote at NEC meetings.
have right to vote at NEC meetings.
I am not aware. I was a national chairman of the party and I am
telling you they don’t have right to vote at NEC meetings. Who again are these
powerful people who can tell you anything more than I who had administered the
party for three good years uninterrupted? Since my time, nobody has been able
to hold that office for that period. So, I know what I am talking about.
telling you they don’t have right to vote at NEC meetings. Who again are these
powerful people who can tell you anything more than I who had administered the
party for three good years uninterrupted? Since my time, nobody has been able
to hold that office for that period. So, I know what I am talking about.
Nigerians believe that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo has confidence in
you since your days in the military and that is why he will always support you…
you since your days in the military and that is why he will always support you…
We have confidence in each other. That is all.
Would that be since your days in the military?
I say we have confidence in each other.
Is it true that President Jonathan and Baba Obasanjo are not on
the same wavelength politically?
the same wavelength politically?
I am not aware of that. You have to be careful because the
perception out there is totally wrong. These people are like a club – I mean
all former Heads of State. So, if you sit down as an ordinary man in your tombo
bar and you think they are fighting, Ekan ntanra yin je ni (You are only deceiving
yourselves).
perception out there is totally wrong. These people are like a club – I mean
all former Heads of State. So, if you sit down as an ordinary man in your tombo
bar and you think they are fighting, Ekan ntanra yin je ni (You are only deceiving
yourselves).
Are you satisfied with the PDP as it is today?
Why not? I am a serious member of the party and there is
nothing wrong with the party.
nothing wrong with the party.
So, what we read in the papers are mere fictions?
You in the media have a way of looking at things from a totally
different angle. What we don’t see, you people start seeing them and you write
your insinuations. So, we don’t bother ourselves.
different angle. What we don’t see, you people start seeing them and you write
your insinuations. So, we don’t bother ourselves.
What do you say to the coming together of four strong political
parties? I mean the newly formed APC.
parties? I mean the newly formed APC.
Well, APC is a drug that was banned a long time ago. It was
banned because it was ineffective and because of the side effects. That is what
APC is. So, if it an ineffective drug, you can’t bring it to treat any disease
we have in this country today. We have since grown beyond that. So, those
people are totally unimaginative. They come together and call themselves APC.
The groups that are there, you know, makes no difference to us. They had always
been there. So what? We have no fear.
banned because it was ineffective and because of the side effects. That is what
APC is. So, if it an ineffective drug, you can’t bring it to treat any disease
we have in this country today. We have since grown beyond that. So, those
people are totally unimaginative. They come together and call themselves APC.
The groups that are there, you know, makes no difference to us. They had always
been there. So what? We have no fear.
The opposition says that President Jonathan is not doing well
and that leaders of the party don’t have good plans for the country and they
have to come together to save the country…
and that leaders of the party don’t have good plans for the country and they
have to come together to save the country…
Our leaders have plans. It is executing the plans to solve the
problem. There are many things that are perhaps, hindering such executions. But
I think they are being unfair to Jonathan. He is just doing two years. How can
you start marking somebody for WAEC exam when he is in JS3? That is not
fair. So, you have to wait until he reaches SS3 before you can say let us
test him. What has he done? You know many things have long incubation periods.
So, two years judgment is unfair. You know, Nigerians are always in a hurry.
That is our headache. That is not good for us. It makes people to make plenty
of mistakes.
problem. There are many things that are perhaps, hindering such executions. But
I think they are being unfair to Jonathan. He is just doing two years. How can
you start marking somebody for WAEC exam when he is in JS3? That is not
fair. So, you have to wait until he reaches SS3 before you can say let us
test him. What has he done? You know many things have long incubation periods.
So, two years judgment is unfair. You know, Nigerians are always in a hurry.
That is our headache. That is not good for us. It makes people to make plenty
of mistakes.
How do you see Boko Haram? Is it political?
I don’t know. I can’t comment on that. But all I know is that if
you solve the problem of hunger in this country and you handle education
solidly, we will get rid of all these problems. During my days as minister of
education, the whole of the states in the North West zone today were called
North West states. The six-year-olds in those days, only six per cent of them
were attending schools. General Obasanjo and I launched the Universal Primary
Education (UPE) scheme. I produced the national policy on education, which we
launched in 1976. We physically launched the UPE in Oke Suna Primary School,
Lagos. When we finished and I retired from the army, by 1980/81, I was already
in the Senate and I went to the military and asked how the enrolment rate was
going.
you solve the problem of hunger in this country and you handle education
solidly, we will get rid of all these problems. During my days as minister of
education, the whole of the states in the North West zone today were called
North West states. The six-year-olds in those days, only six per cent of them
were attending schools. General Obasanjo and I launched the Universal Primary
Education (UPE) scheme. I produced the national policy on education, which we
launched in 1976. We physically launched the UPE in Oke Suna Primary School,
Lagos. When we finished and I retired from the army, by 1980/81, I was already
in the Senate and I went to the military and asked how the enrolment rate was
going.
They said it increased to 45 per cent from six per cent.
Now, if that momentum were kept, we will not be talking about
almajiri now. The secret is that we have to go back to basis by asking the
elders for solutions. The late Emir of Katsina, Usman Nagogo, told me that the
classroom I was building all over the federation as minister for education
was only for goats. He said if I wanted it to be inhabited by students, I
should take the almajiri teachers to the teacher training college to teach
religious studies from primary one to six and give them small allowance, three
pounds and fifty, and they will learn how to use chalk and so on and so forth.
They will be there until two o’clock, like the students. So, when the students
reach home, they are free for the almajiri teacher. I borrowed the idea. The
late Sultan of Sokoto, also gave me a similar piece of advice and wrote letters
to all the emirs to cooperate with me on the UPE scheme.
almajiri now. The secret is that we have to go back to basis by asking the
elders for solutions. The late Emir of Katsina, Usman Nagogo, told me that the
classroom I was building all over the federation as minister for education
was only for goats. He said if I wanted it to be inhabited by students, I
should take the almajiri teachers to the teacher training college to teach
religious studies from primary one to six and give them small allowance, three
pounds and fifty, and they will learn how to use chalk and so on and so forth.
They will be there until two o’clock, like the students. So, when the students
reach home, they are free for the almajiri teacher. I borrowed the idea. The
late Sultan of Sokoto, also gave me a similar piece of advice and wrote letters
to all the emirs to cooperate with me on the UPE scheme.
In Kano, with the extra money I was given for primary schools
and for educationally backward areas, we decided to build science secondary
schools. I established JAMB- the reinvigorated NUC on the prompting of Chief
Obafemi Awolowo because he was a chancellor of one of the universities. By that
time, 1982, we found that not only have we broken the backbone of backwardness,
Kano State started producing the highest number of students that passed JAMB
exams in the sciences into the universities in Nigeria. That was done by an old
teacher, who studied and got degree. His name is Professor Ayagi. He is still
alive. He was a commissioner for education for Kano State.
and for educationally backward areas, we decided to build science secondary
schools. I established JAMB- the reinvigorated NUC on the prompting of Chief
Obafemi Awolowo because he was a chancellor of one of the universities. By that
time, 1982, we found that not only have we broken the backbone of backwardness,
Kano State started producing the highest number of students that passed JAMB
exams in the sciences into the universities in Nigeria. That was done by an old
teacher, who studied and got degree. His name is Professor Ayagi. He is still
alive. He was a commissioner for education for Kano State.
The JAMB result showed that the highest mark for science
students into the Nigerian universities came from Kano. It is a question of
maintaining the momentum. In Nigeria, we are fond of somebody starting
something and somebody stopping it. People come into public office and behave
as if they are discovering Nigeria afresh. Nobody wants to make reference to
those who have performed in the past.
students into the Nigerian universities came from Kano. It is a question of
maintaining the momentum. In Nigeria, we are fond of somebody starting
something and somebody stopping it. People come into public office and behave
as if they are discovering Nigeria afresh. Nobody wants to make reference to
those who have performed in the past.
Obasanjo is sitting down there; he is a bundle of knowledge for
this country. If you have any difficulty and you cannot go to him and say come,
how did you do it? This is my problem. You are wasting your time. All the
people hanging around all these people (in public office) are just bootlickers.
They are not advising properly. Obasanjo is the only person who has been
Head of State three times in this country.
this country. If you have any difficulty and you cannot go to him and say come,
how did you do it? This is my problem. You are wasting your time. All the
people hanging around all these people (in public office) are just bootlickers.
They are not advising properly. Obasanjo is the only person who has been
Head of State three times in this country.
Sir, is it three or two times?
Three times. He did it as a military. He came back twice as
civilian. Is that not three times? That is the man who fought the civil war,
defeated Biafra, arrested the Biafra Commander of the Armed Forces, General
Effiong, brought him to Lagos, presented him to his Commander-in- Chief,
General Yakubu Gowon and he signed the article of surrender. What kind of
sacrifice do you want somebody to do again? He ran government when his boss,
Murtala Muhammed, died and kept the faith. Murtala told us we shall all leave.
I was in his cabinet.
civilian. Is that not three times? That is the man who fought the civil war,
defeated Biafra, arrested the Biafra Commander of the Armed Forces, General
Effiong, brought him to Lagos, presented him to his Commander-in- Chief,
General Yakubu Gowon and he signed the article of surrender. What kind of
sacrifice do you want somebody to do again? He ran government when his boss,
Murtala Muhammed, died and kept the faith. Murtala told us we shall all leave.
I was in his cabinet.
You were in Murtala’s cabinet?
I was in the cabinet of Yakubu Gowon, Murtala and Obasanjo.
Throughout the three administrations, I was the minister of education,
throughout the three administrations of Gowon, Murtala and Obasanjo. Murtala
said we should all go home after 1978.
Throughout the three administrations, I was the minister of education,
throughout the three administrations of Gowon, Murtala and Obasanjo. Murtala
said we should all go home after 1978.
Murtala said that?
Yes. He said that all those who are Generals and above should go
to their villages. Anybody below who is still viable should return to the
units, but I decided to go because as a medical doctor, I thought I had had
enough. I left. This man, (Obasanjo) kept the faith and voluntarily
handed over to civilians. He could have said he wasn’t going. What can anybody
do? After all, it is the gun that got them there. And you people still don’t
recognise him, especially the Yoruba people who are totally ungrateful kind of
people in this country.
to their villages. Anybody below who is still viable should return to the
units, but I decided to go because as a medical doctor, I thought I had had
enough. I left. This man, (Obasanjo) kept the faith and voluntarily
handed over to civilians. He could have said he wasn’t going. What can anybody
do? After all, it is the gun that got them there. And you people still don’t
recognise him, especially the Yoruba people who are totally ungrateful kind of
people in this country.
You want me to quote you as saying that?
Put it like that. They are ungrateful.
How sir? Yoruba leaders said Obasanjo was unfair to his people
throughout his time in government.
throughout his time in government.
What do you mean by being unfair to them? He is not a tribalist
and he was not ruling a Yoruba kingdom. He ruled Nigeria. My own kingdom is one
of the oldest kingdoms in this country –Igala kingdom. By 1100 or so when
the barbarians were invading Britain, Igala was already a kingdom. How do you
expect the man to behave?
and he was not ruling a Yoruba kingdom. He ruled Nigeria. My own kingdom is one
of the oldest kingdoms in this country –Igala kingdom. By 1100 or so when
the barbarians were invading Britain, Igala was already a kingdom. How do you
expect the man to behave?
Many Yoruba said Obasanjo was determined not to hand over to
Obafemi Awolowo in 1979. They said Obasanjo administration of which you are
part robbed Awolowo of victory at the polls…
Obafemi Awolowo in 1979. They said Obasanjo administration of which you are
part robbed Awolowo of victory at the polls…
Don’t talk rubbish. You are talking rubbish. That is the
stupidity of the press and the self-appointed Yoruba leaders who are failures
in their various fields of endeavour. They are just a total failure. How can
you say, in an election where one candidate scored 12 million and showed presence
in more than 12 states out of 19 and another candidate scored five million and
showed presence in only five states, you then give it to the second person?
What is democracy about? Is it a game of numbers? All the argument is about 12
two third? What is two third? The man had 12 states and 12 million votes.
Awolowo had only five million and only in five states. You want to go and give
it to him? Yoruba are another character.
stupidity of the press and the self-appointed Yoruba leaders who are failures
in their various fields of endeavour. They are just a total failure. How can
you say, in an election where one candidate scored 12 million and showed presence
in more than 12 states out of 19 and another candidate scored five million and
showed presence in only five states, you then give it to the second person?
What is democracy about? Is it a game of numbers? All the argument is about 12
two third? What is two third? The man had 12 states and 12 million votes.
Awolowo had only five million and only in five states. You want to go and give
it to him? Yoruba are another character.
Why were many party members deregistered under your watch in
PDP?
PDP?
Nobody was deregistered. The party wants membership. There is no
question of deregistration. We came to a stage when the President and his
deputy were at loggerheads and people took up positions. We were going into
election and we couldn’t be sure who remained with us. The vice president had
gone to the newly formed AC at the time and many people said they were going
with him. So, we wanted to know our strength. It was a poll. We did not
deregister anybody. If you did not go to your ward to register, that is your
business; we will know you are not for us. If there is a decision going on in
your ward and you went, you are part of the party. That was all we did. Simple
arithmetic.
question of deregistration. We came to a stage when the President and his
deputy were at loggerheads and people took up positions. We were going into
election and we couldn’t be sure who remained with us. The vice president had
gone to the newly formed AC at the time and many people said they were going
with him. So, we wanted to know our strength. It was a poll. We did not
deregister anybody. If you did not go to your ward to register, that is your
business; we will know you are not for us. If there is a decision going on in
your ward and you went, you are part of the party. That was all we did. Simple
arithmetic.
We did a secret poll to size our strength all over the
federation and we knew we were going to win and we continued. People don’t have
an idea of what was happening.
federation and we knew we were going to win and we continued. People don’t have
an idea of what was happening.
Culled from the Sun
