In this interview, Col. Tony Nyiam, who was part of the failed
attempt to oust the Gen. Ibrahim Babangida’s military government in 1990, tells
Punch how the Orkar coup originated and its relevance to Nigerian politics
attempt to oust the Gen. Ibrahim Babangida’s military government in 1990, tells
Punch how the Orkar coup originated and its relevance to Nigerian politics
You said what has
come to be known as the Orkar coup was not a coup but an action. What is the
difference between the two?
come to be known as the Orkar coup was not a coup but an action. What is the
difference between the two?
I
said it was a pro-democracy action to stop a situation where there would have
been perpetual diarchy in Nigeria, where politicians in uniform would have put
a system in place for them to rule forever. I’m talking about a system similar
to what the Arab uprising dismantled in Egypt.
said it was a pro-democracy action to stop a situation where there would have
been perpetual diarchy in Nigeria, where politicians in uniform would have put
a system in place for them to rule forever. I’m talking about a system similar
to what the Arab uprising dismantled in Egypt.
But a more senior military officer, Gen. Olusegun Obasanjo,
referred to it as a coup.
referred to it as a coup.
It
is because in our setting we misuse words. And because we are used to misusing
words, we believe even words that are not really the truth. A military coup
would be a coup against an elected government. Our action was not against an
elected government. In fact, it’s the responsibility of a military officer to
rise up against anybody who takes over power from an elected government, which
the government we took action against did. The government we took action
against, which was part of the Muhammadu Buhari to Ibrahim Babangida regime, had
usurped power from the elected government of Shehu Shagari. If there is a coup
that overthrows an elected government, it is the duty of a military officer to
do a counter-coup to restore democracy.
is because in our setting we misuse words. And because we are used to misusing
words, we believe even words that are not really the truth. A military coup
would be a coup against an elected government. Our action was not against an
elected government. In fact, it’s the responsibility of a military officer to
rise up against anybody who takes over power from an elected government, which
the government we took action against did. The government we took action
against, which was part of the Muhammadu Buhari to Ibrahim Babangida regime, had
usurped power from the elected government of Shehu Shagari. If there is a coup
that overthrows an elected government, it is the duty of a military officer to
do a counter-coup to restore democracy.
Would you have done the same thing if Buhari had remained in
power to that time?
power to that time?
If
we had seen the same indications during Buhari’s time, the plan by the military
to perpetuate itself, we would have done that. But Buhari wasn’t of that kind
of mould.
we had seen the same indications during Buhari’s time, the plan by the military
to perpetuate itself, we would have done that. But Buhari wasn’t of that kind
of mould.
Are you saying your stay in power would have been brief, only
long enough to prepare for elections?
long enough to prepare for elections?
Yes.
We would have stayed just 18 months to do basically three things, which Nigeria
still needs to do. They are: a national census, a proper headcount. I’m happy
that as I’ve been saying for years, Festus Odimegwu, the new chairman of the
National Population Commission, clearly said there has been no credible census
in Nigeria since 1816. The fact is that Nigerians have been so ignorant and
have refused to deal with the crucial matter. The census, right from the British
time, has always been used to perpetuate the internal colonisers over the rest
of Nigeria. The three things we would have done; first a proper national
census, so we can know how many we are and how we are spread. If we truly know
what the Nigerian population is, over 40 per cent of the constituencies in the
North-West and North-East, would not exist. We can only know that if we do a
proper census and that is why today, Festus Odimegwu’s life is being threatened
because he wants to give us a true count for the first time.
We would have stayed just 18 months to do basically three things, which Nigeria
still needs to do. They are: a national census, a proper headcount. I’m happy
that as I’ve been saying for years, Festus Odimegwu, the new chairman of the
National Population Commission, clearly said there has been no credible census
in Nigeria since 1816. The fact is that Nigerians have been so ignorant and
have refused to deal with the crucial matter. The census, right from the British
time, has always been used to perpetuate the internal colonisers over the rest
of Nigeria. The three things we would have done; first a proper national
census, so we can know how many we are and how we are spread. If we truly know
what the Nigerian population is, over 40 per cent of the constituencies in the
North-West and North-East, would not exist. We can only know that if we do a
proper census and that is why today, Festus Odimegwu’s life is being threatened
because he wants to give us a true count for the first time.
The
second thing would have been a conference, which would allow Nigerians to
negotiate how they want to coexist. Today, we have a situation where there are
abuses of the federal character system. For example, a candidate from say Delta
State has to score 170 to pass, while another from another part of the country
is required to score eight. Such abuses cannot really be acceptable by a people
who have a nation. We are yet to have a nation. The imperative of a
conference cannot be ruled out; people need to negotiate. The third thing was
to conduct a free and fair election, which has eluded Nigeria for long. In all
the regimes, a semblance of free and fair election we see only in a few states
in Nigeria basically Lagos and the other states in the South-West. I’m not
saying they have achieved it, but we see relatively free and fair elections in
these regions. It is not surprising why these regions are the most developing,
South-West is the most peaceful, relatively compared to other regions and of
course it is the region, where there is relative collective governance of the
people. I must give credit to this government, led by President Goodluck
Jonathan. The Ondo and Edo states governorship elections, which were
relatively free and fair, are credit to Jonathan’s government. These are the
things we would have done in those 18 months and those three things whether we
like it or not, have to be done. First, we must have a proper census and that
is why all Nigerians must support Festus Odimegwu to give us a proper census.
Two, we must sit down and negotiate our corporate existence. We must stop
deceiving ourselves with these fraudulent elections we’ve been having.
second thing would have been a conference, which would allow Nigerians to
negotiate how they want to coexist. Today, we have a situation where there are
abuses of the federal character system. For example, a candidate from say Delta
State has to score 170 to pass, while another from another part of the country
is required to score eight. Such abuses cannot really be acceptable by a people
who have a nation. We are yet to have a nation. The imperative of a
conference cannot be ruled out; people need to negotiate. The third thing was
to conduct a free and fair election, which has eluded Nigeria for long. In all
the regimes, a semblance of free and fair election we see only in a few states
in Nigeria basically Lagos and the other states in the South-West. I’m not
saying they have achieved it, but we see relatively free and fair elections in
these regions. It is not surprising why these regions are the most developing,
South-West is the most peaceful, relatively compared to other regions and of
course it is the region, where there is relative collective governance of the
people. I must give credit to this government, led by President Goodluck
Jonathan. The Ondo and Edo states governorship elections, which were
relatively free and fair, are credit to Jonathan’s government. These are the
things we would have done in those 18 months and those three things whether we
like it or not, have to be done. First, we must have a proper census and that
is why all Nigerians must support Festus Odimegwu to give us a proper census.
Two, we must sit down and negotiate our corporate existence. We must stop
deceiving ourselves with these fraudulent elections we’ve been having.
There is the argument that we don’t need to have another
conference since we have representatives at the National Assembly.
conference since we have representatives at the National Assembly.
It
is the most ignorant assumption. Why do I say it is ignorant? With all the
political scientists we have in our midst, people forget that what we are
practising is what we call indirect democracy. What do I mean? The proprietary
right over people’s sovereignty is delegated to people we elect to make laws
for us. When it comes to making constitutional reforms or constitution making,
you go to what is called direct democracy. Direct democracy means direct voting
by the people in the form of a referendum and that is why the universal
practice is that a constitution making process that does not go through a
constituent assembly, whose decisions are approved by a referendum, is null and
void. We see the examples. Look at South Sudan; it’s creation resulted from a
referendum. How is it that Nigerians do not understand that for a constitution
to be legitimate, it has to be driven by the people, and the people are usually
represented by a constituent assembly? And this constituent assembly is usually
made up of non-partisan politicians, because partisan politicians are only
concerned with the next election. They are not concerned about posterity
or long-term issues in the country. So, constitution which outlives people and
a generation should be driven by civil society, collection of every nationality
in the country and clerics. I would cite an example. My second home is in
Scotland and in Scotland those who drove for the national conference were the
clerics of the Church of Scotland, they were at the forefront. We also saw it
in Ireland. Britain has the oldest parliament in the world, why are they
allowing a constituent assembly to go ahead, while there are parliaments? It is
only in Nigeria that such argument is raised because of the ignorance of the
difference between direct and indirect democracy. That’s why I have tried to do
an aide-memoir to aid constitution- making. There are certain basic principles
of constitution-making, which if we do not follow, would be like building
a house on quicksand.
is the most ignorant assumption. Why do I say it is ignorant? With all the
political scientists we have in our midst, people forget that what we are
practising is what we call indirect democracy. What do I mean? The proprietary
right over people’s sovereignty is delegated to people we elect to make laws
for us. When it comes to making constitutional reforms or constitution making,
you go to what is called direct democracy. Direct democracy means direct voting
by the people in the form of a referendum and that is why the universal
practice is that a constitution making process that does not go through a
constituent assembly, whose decisions are approved by a referendum, is null and
void. We see the examples. Look at South Sudan; it’s creation resulted from a
referendum. How is it that Nigerians do not understand that for a constitution
to be legitimate, it has to be driven by the people, and the people are usually
represented by a constituent assembly? And this constituent assembly is usually
made up of non-partisan politicians, because partisan politicians are only
concerned with the next election. They are not concerned about posterity
or long-term issues in the country. So, constitution which outlives people and
a generation should be driven by civil society, collection of every nationality
in the country and clerics. I would cite an example. My second home is in
Scotland and in Scotland those who drove for the national conference were the
clerics of the Church of Scotland, they were at the forefront. We also saw it
in Ireland. Britain has the oldest parliament in the world, why are they
allowing a constituent assembly to go ahead, while there are parliaments? It is
only in Nigeria that such argument is raised because of the ignorance of the
difference between direct and indirect democracy. That’s why I have tried to do
an aide-memoir to aid constitution- making. There are certain basic principles
of constitution-making, which if we do not follow, would be like building
a house on quicksand.
Do you think we would have been able to tackle these problems if
the June 12 election had not been annulled by Babangida?
the June 12 election had not been annulled by Babangida?
The
thing is, Chief MKO Abiola, who I had the opportunity to work with when he
escaped from Nigeria to UK, was a man that we lost because his plan was to
correct the national issues and start democracy in Nigeria. But because some
western interests in Nigeria did not want this, they colluded to do away with
him.
thing is, Chief MKO Abiola, who I had the opportunity to work with when he
escaped from Nigeria to UK, was a man that we lost because his plan was to
correct the national issues and start democracy in Nigeria. But because some
western interests in Nigeria did not want this, they colluded to do away with
him.
You once said soldiers could be recruited for a coup without
their knowledge. How is that possible?
their knowledge. How is that possible?
Yes,
there are many instances. You might want to verify this from Gen. Buhari, he
was not the initiator of that coup that brought him in as Head of State, it was
Gen. Ibrahim Bako and Babangida that initiated it. But because they wanted a
credible figure as a face, he was brought in. He did not know the genesis of
that coup. He was not quite aware of the original idea behind the coup and that
was why when he decided to make a change, he was forced to step aside. So, if
this could happen to a whole Gen. Buhari, who was supposedly the leader of a
coup, it shows how many soldiers can be brought in that way.
there are many instances. You might want to verify this from Gen. Buhari, he
was not the initiator of that coup that brought him in as Head of State, it was
Gen. Ibrahim Bako and Babangida that initiated it. But because they wanted a
credible figure as a face, he was brought in. He did not know the genesis of
that coup. He was not quite aware of the original idea behind the coup and that
was why when he decided to make a change, he was forced to step aside. So, if
this could happen to a whole Gen. Buhari, who was supposedly the leader of a
coup, it shows how many soldiers can be brought in that way.
Does that mean overthrowing Shagari’s government was IBB’s idea?
It
was the idea of late Gen. Bako and IBB. Buhari was only brought in because they
needed a face with integrity.
was the idea of late Gen. Bako and IBB. Buhari was only brought in because they
needed a face with integrity.
Can you give other instances?
Gen.
Yakubu Gowon was not part of the coup that brought him in. He was a decent man.
Nigerians like to play what the Yoruba people call bojuboju; they bring a figure
with integrity to cover up their real intention; the real intention of
politicians in uniform who have found cheap party. Many elements of them are in
our partisan politics today.
Yakubu Gowon was not part of the coup that brought him in. He was a decent man.
Nigerians like to play what the Yoruba people call bojuboju; they bring a figure
with integrity to cover up their real intention; the real intention of
politicians in uniform who have found cheap party. Many elements of them are in
our partisan politics today.
That means such heads of states were under the control of the
coup plotters that installed them.
coup plotters that installed them.
Obviously.
And these people are still the reason why we are not allowed to have a proper
census, they are still the ones ensuring that we don’t have a conference as
well as a free and fair election because if you give the people their rights to
choose who to governs them, you have freed them and these oligarchs don’t want
that.
And these people are still the reason why we are not allowed to have a proper
census, they are still the ones ensuring that we don’t have a conference as
well as a free and fair election because if you give the people their rights to
choose who to governs them, you have freed them and these oligarchs don’t want
that.
Could it be a defence in the military to say I wasn’t part of a
coup, I was just brought in?
coup, I was just brought in?
It
couldn’t be a defence because at the point you know that it is a coup, you
should do everything possible to resist it.
couldn’t be a defence because at the point you know that it is a coup, you
should do everything possible to resist it.
Even at the risk of taking your life?
That
was what we did. At the point when we realised that they were going to
perpetuate the military government in Nigeria, we took the risk.
was what we did. At the point when we realised that they were going to
perpetuate the military government in Nigeria, we took the risk.
Can we say this plan was an Hausa-Fulani agenda, since most of
these military leaders are northerners?
these military leaders are northerners?
We
cannot reduce this thing to an issue of a peaceful Hausa-Fulani man or a
peaceful Yoruba man or a peaceful Igbo man. I think we are above that. What we
see is an interest of oligarchs, who think power and money controls and there
are all sorts of people in that fold. For a long time, you may say one ethnic
group has a preponderant membership of that group.
cannot reduce this thing to an issue of a peaceful Hausa-Fulani man or a
peaceful Yoruba man or a peaceful Igbo man. I think we are above that. What we
see is an interest of oligarchs, who think power and money controls and there
are all sorts of people in that fold. For a long time, you may say one ethnic
group has a preponderant membership of that group.
It was reported that the late Gideon Orkar wanted to excise
northern Nigeria from the country. Was it part of the agenda?
northern Nigeria from the country. Was it part of the agenda?
The
unsung hero, Gideon Orkar, was far from anybody who wanted to divide the
country. He was calling all regions of the country to some conditionality that
they have to meet, if they want us to coexist. It was because that was an era
when certain people were saying that they were superior, and that power was
their prerogative and that they had the monopoly of power.
unsung hero, Gideon Orkar, was far from anybody who wanted to divide the
country. He was calling all regions of the country to some conditionality that
they have to meet, if they want us to coexist. It was because that was an era
when certain people were saying that they were superior, and that power was
their prerogative and that they had the monopoly of power.
Would that have been due to the ethnic coloration of previous
coups?
coups?
Sure.
It is sad that democrats are missing the issue that we were fighting against,
which we still need to fight against. It is a situation where they take over
power and give advantage to their people to the extent that today if we count
the local governments we have in Kano and Jigawa which are states not up to
Lagos in population, the local governments are up to three to five times the
number of local government areas in Lagos. Lagos is a place, apart from the
Niger Delta which gives us foreign exchange earner. Lagos contributes over 70
per cent of our non-oil revenue generation and the same Lagos gets less than
what Kano, which produces less than two per cent, gets. This is why I must say
Lagos State made a mistake, instead of relocating the problem where it lies; it
is not about deporting Igbo beggars to Onitsha end of the Niger Bridge. Lagos
should take the right steps legally or otherwise to assert the rights of the
state which is being the owner of the Value Added Tax and the sales tax
generated in Lagos. The things we fought against are still structurally within
our polity. Today, you cannot pass a bill at the National Assembly, if two
zones — North-East and North-West — do not agree. So, two zones can stop four
zones — South-East, South-West, South-South and North-Central — from moving
forward. The irony of this is that these zones are in the semi-desert areas
that are usually less populated going by all empirical evidence. We have
problems with our census figure; that is why they have all those constituencies
and that is why they planned coups to perpetuate that.
It is sad that democrats are missing the issue that we were fighting against,
which we still need to fight against. It is a situation where they take over
power and give advantage to their people to the extent that today if we count
the local governments we have in Kano and Jigawa which are states not up to
Lagos in population, the local governments are up to three to five times the
number of local government areas in Lagos. Lagos is a place, apart from the
Niger Delta which gives us foreign exchange earner. Lagos contributes over 70
per cent of our non-oil revenue generation and the same Lagos gets less than
what Kano, which produces less than two per cent, gets. This is why I must say
Lagos State made a mistake, instead of relocating the problem where it lies; it
is not about deporting Igbo beggars to Onitsha end of the Niger Bridge. Lagos
should take the right steps legally or otherwise to assert the rights of the
state which is being the owner of the Value Added Tax and the sales tax
generated in Lagos. The things we fought against are still structurally within
our polity. Today, you cannot pass a bill at the National Assembly, if two
zones — North-East and North-West — do not agree. So, two zones can stop four
zones — South-East, South-West, South-South and North-Central — from moving
forward. The irony of this is that these zones are in the semi-desert areas
that are usually less populated going by all empirical evidence. We have
problems with our census figure; that is why they have all those constituencies
and that is why they planned coups to perpetuate that.
Do you think the action failed because the northerners were not
involved and because of the conditions given to them to be part of Nigeria?
involved and because of the conditions given to them to be part of Nigeria?
First
of all, our action and Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu’s action were the only actions
that were not palace coup. The likes of Bako and IBB’s coup which brought in
Buhari wer. The fact is that the government of Shagari was a government that
the military was highly involved in because of the ethnic kinsmanship. There
was a fight over contracts that broke the coup. It was an in-house thing. So,
the coup was driven by people’s selfish interests and that is why I don’t call
it a military coup, I call it a politicians-in-uniform coup. Nzeogwu’s action
and our action were done by outsiders, who felt this cash-and-carry ruling and
stealing would not be allowed to continue.
of all, our action and Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu’s action were the only actions
that were not palace coup. The likes of Bako and IBB’s coup which brought in
Buhari wer. The fact is that the government of Shagari was a government that
the military was highly involved in because of the ethnic kinsmanship. There
was a fight over contracts that broke the coup. It was an in-house thing. So,
the coup was driven by people’s selfish interests and that is why I don’t call
it a military coup, I call it a politicians-in-uniform coup. Nzeogwu’s action
and our action were done by outsiders, who felt this cash-and-carry ruling and
stealing would not be allowed to continue.
If the action had been successful, who would have been the head
of state?
of state?
It
would have been Maj. Saliba Mukoro. He was the initiator. They heard about me
and they wanted some senior people to be part of the action. When they
approached me, I didn’t accept immediately because I wasn’t the type that will
go for a coup or any action. But when I heard the strength of the argument, and
in line with my insight as to what was happening in government because I was a
close aide to Babangida and Sani Abacha. It would have been immoral of me
to report the young officers. I was torn in-between reporting these
young, overzealous and selfless boys, who wanted certain issues solved and
maitaining loyalty to the military government. People forget that it was
because of the action that Delta State was created. And the system in Delta
State today has fraudulently prevented one of the people who initiated it, Great
Ogboru, to govern. People forget that Bayelsa State was created because of the
action. And that’s why I still find it sad that till today, even with the
President coming from Bayelsa, no Bayelsan government has honoured those boys
who sacrificed their lives for the Niger Delta. I have said it over and over
that these chaps deserve to be honoured. I think the Niger Deltans, President
Jonathan and the Ijaw should take cue from the Yoruba and honour those boys.
The majority of the boys in our action were Niger Deltans for obvious reasons.
would have been Maj. Saliba Mukoro. He was the initiator. They heard about me
and they wanted some senior people to be part of the action. When they
approached me, I didn’t accept immediately because I wasn’t the type that will
go for a coup or any action. But when I heard the strength of the argument, and
in line with my insight as to what was happening in government because I was a
close aide to Babangida and Sani Abacha. It would have been immoral of me
to report the young officers. I was torn in-between reporting these
young, overzealous and selfless boys, who wanted certain issues solved and
maitaining loyalty to the military government. People forget that it was
because of the action that Delta State was created. And the system in Delta
State today has fraudulently prevented one of the people who initiated it, Great
Ogboru, to govern. People forget that Bayelsa State was created because of the
action. And that’s why I still find it sad that till today, even with the
President coming from Bayelsa, no Bayelsan government has honoured those boys
who sacrificed their lives for the Niger Delta. I have said it over and over
that these chaps deserve to be honoured. I think the Niger Deltans, President
Jonathan and the Ijaw should take cue from the Yoruba and honour those boys.
The majority of the boys in our action were Niger Deltans for obvious reasons.
Were you the only colonel in the action?
We
were two lieutenant colonels. I was brought in by another lieutenant colonel.
But that lieutenant colonel sold out and that was why there was a leakage and
we had to rush. The person who recruited me had sold out.
were two lieutenant colonels. I was brought in by another lieutenant colonel.
But that lieutenant colonel sold out and that was why there was a leakage and
we had to rush. The person who recruited me had sold out.
Is he a Niger Deltan?
Yes.
His name was Lt. Col. Patrick Oketa.
His name was Lt. Col. Patrick Oketa.
When you were pardoned, what was your feeling?
First
of all, we were grateful to Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar and Admiral Mike Akhigbe,
who were the initiators of the pardon. These were two gentlemen who were never
part of any coup. Power was just dumped on Abdulsalami and true to his
character; he wasted no time in returning power to civillians. The system of
returning power to civilians should have been better but because he didn’t want
to stay a day longer, he left and this is a reflection of his character.
of all, we were grateful to Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar and Admiral Mike Akhigbe,
who were the initiators of the pardon. These were two gentlemen who were never
part of any coup. Power was just dumped on Abdulsalami and true to his
character; he wasted no time in returning power to civillians. The system of
returning power to civilians should have been better but because he didn’t want
to stay a day longer, he left and this is a reflection of his character.
Do you still relate with your colleagues?
Sure,
what we didn’t realise is that most of our colleagues who were travelling were
very helpful to us, because they knew what we fought for. If our actions were
not taken, you would never have had the chance of having an Igbo man as Chief
of Army Staff. No Yoruba man would have had that chance either. Why do I say
so? Some of us had insight as to a succession plan in the army for the next 50
years. You would never have had the likes of Gen. Martin Agwai being the Chief
of Army Staff and Defence Staff, because he belongs to the northern Christian
minority. The army, after General T.Y. Danjuma’s time became an army that was
to be led by only an ethnic group. People forget that there is a linkage
between our action and the chance that MKO Abiola was given for the election.
what we didn’t realise is that most of our colleagues who were travelling were
very helpful to us, because they knew what we fought for. If our actions were
not taken, you would never have had the chance of having an Igbo man as Chief
of Army Staff. No Yoruba man would have had that chance either. Why do I say
so? Some of us had insight as to a succession plan in the army for the next 50
years. You would never have had the likes of Gen. Martin Agwai being the Chief
of Army Staff and Defence Staff, because he belongs to the northern Christian
minority. The army, after General T.Y. Danjuma’s time became an army that was
to be led by only an ethnic group. People forget that there is a linkage
between our action and the chance that MKO Abiola was given for the election.
Now that we have Delta and Bayelsa states and we have the
Ministry of Niger Delta and an Ijaw man is the head. Do you think these are
enough to right the wrongs of the past?
Ministry of Niger Delta and an Ijaw man is the head. Do you think these are
enough to right the wrongs of the past?
Those
issues are again the usual Nigerian way of dealing with things; rather than go
for a holistic tactic. A fundamental thing essentially is to restore power.
Once power is restored to the people it is left to them. All these things are
just temporal measures. The fundamental issue is to return Nigeria to
true federalism. This talk of diversifying our economy cannot happen if
we do not have fiscal federalism. People forget that when we had proper
federalism, the main foreign exchange for Nigeria was agriculture. So, we have
to go back to that.
issues are again the usual Nigerian way of dealing with things; rather than go
for a holistic tactic. A fundamental thing essentially is to restore power.
Once power is restored to the people it is left to them. All these things are
just temporal measures. The fundamental issue is to return Nigeria to
true federalism. This talk of diversifying our economy cannot happen if
we do not have fiscal federalism. People forget that when we had proper
federalism, the main foreign exchange for Nigeria was agriculture. So, we have
to go back to that.
Source: Punch
