American
civil rights leader, Baptist Minister and two-time Democratic Presidential
nominee, Rev. Jesse Jackson, was in Yenagoa, Bayelsa State, as a Guest Speaker
at Isaac Boro Day lecture. He spoke on a wide range of issues in this interview
with journalists. MIKE ODIEGWU was there. An excerpt:
civil rights leader, Baptist Minister and two-time Democratic Presidential
nominee, Rev. Jesse Jackson, was in Yenagoa, Bayelsa State, as a Guest Speaker
at Isaac Boro Day lecture. He spoke on a wide range of issues in this interview
with journalists. MIKE ODIEGWU was there. An excerpt:
You are from one of the most advanced
democracies in the world, how much of democracy have you seen in Nigeria and
Bayelsa State?
democracies in the world, how much of democracy have you seen in Nigeria and
Bayelsa State?
The
American democracy which is just 40 years old is said to be hundreds of years
old. Over 246 years, Africans in America were in slavery, they were not full
citizens, they called it democracy but it was not. Hundred years of Jim Crow
racial marginalisation, they called it democracy because white could rule, we
could not, but it was not.
American democracy which is just 40 years old is said to be hundreds of years
old. Over 246 years, Africans in America were in slavery, they were not full
citizens, they called it democracy but it was not. Hundred years of Jim Crow
racial marginalisation, they called it democracy because white could rule, we
could not, but it was not.
But in
1965 because of our struggle and because of the martyrs of that struggle most,
like the Isaac Boros, these martyrs helped to redefine the American democracy
and made it for the first time inclusive democracy. The first time
African-Americans could vote and two years later in 1967 white women could
serve on juries. In 1970, an 18 years old could vote and in 1974 you could vote
on campuses and in 1975 you could vote bilingually. So, ours was democracy in
the making and that has happened since 1948.
1965 because of our struggle and because of the martyrs of that struggle most,
like the Isaac Boros, these martyrs helped to redefine the American democracy
and made it for the first time inclusive democracy. The first time
African-Americans could vote and two years later in 1967 white women could
serve on juries. In 1970, an 18 years old could vote and in 1974 you could vote
on campuses and in 1975 you could vote bilingually. So, ours was democracy in
the making and that has happened since 1948.
If you
look at your young nation, you are here where we were at age 20 or 25. The
process has been long but there is now a common belief in democracy in Bayelsa
State and in Nigeria. A belief that the vote does matter and vote must count.
We should not allow ethnicity and tribalism to limit our participation in
democracy.
look at your young nation, you are here where we were at age 20 or 25. The
process has been long but there is now a common belief in democracy in Bayelsa
State and in Nigeria. A belief that the vote does matter and vote must count.
We should not allow ethnicity and tribalism to limit our participation in
democracy.
So, the
right to vote means little without right to economic security. The feeling is
that the freedom of our reconstruction is not freedom to starve, freedom to be
malnourished, freedom to be unemployed. The freedom is not enough. We should go
beyond that and fight for the freedom of economic equality and economic
justice.
right to vote means little without right to economic security. The feeling is
that the freedom of our reconstruction is not freedom to starve, freedom to be
malnourished, freedom to be unemployed. The freedom is not enough. We should go
beyond that and fight for the freedom of economic equality and economic
justice.
This
means that these corporations that are operating here must have a real sense of
responsibility, partnership. The source of shame frankly is that you have this
abundance of supply of resources but we import oil and gas as well. That
mentality must change. There is no real logical reason why refineries are not
opened in Nigeria as part of the partnership. You must have a refining capacity
if you have to be on a level playing field.
means that these corporations that are operating here must have a real sense of
responsibility, partnership. The source of shame frankly is that you have this
abundance of supply of resources but we import oil and gas as well. That
mentality must change. There is no real logical reason why refineries are not
opened in Nigeria as part of the partnership. You must have a refining capacity
if you have to be on a level playing field.
How do
we get Nigeria to be at par with the developed economies?
we get Nigeria to be at par with the developed economies?
You
have a stable government and violence has been reduced. It is very significant
because violence and democracy don’t go hand in hand. Violence and investment
don’t work together. People do not invest where there is violence. They don’t
invest where there is fear. Where there is fear and violence there is no growth
and where there is no growth there is no development.
have a stable government and violence has been reduced. It is very significant
because violence and democracy don’t go hand in hand. Violence and investment
don’t work together. People do not invest where there is violence. They don’t
invest where there is fear. Where there is fear and violence there is no growth
and where there is no growth there is no development.
That is
why democratic resolution of conflict as opposed to violent suppression of
terrorists is the way to go. Part of democracy is the right to fight for the
right and we have checks and balances, balance of power, the legislature,
executive and judiciary. There is a way to express oneself which is by
election, protest and litigation. When we address those matters in democracy,
it makes a country investment attractive. I want to say that the governor
Dickson’s commitment in seeking regional, American and European investment is a
good thing. That investment must be about partnership.
why democratic resolution of conflict as opposed to violent suppression of
terrorists is the way to go. Part of democracy is the right to fight for the
right and we have checks and balances, balance of power, the legislature,
executive and judiciary. There is a way to express oneself which is by
election, protest and litigation. When we address those matters in democracy,
it makes a country investment attractive. I want to say that the governor
Dickson’s commitment in seeking regional, American and European investment is a
good thing. That investment must be about partnership.
Is the
struggle of Niger Delta region for self determination justified?
struggle of Niger Delta region for self determination justified?
Absolutely.
The beauty of the dream of Isaac Boro is the dream for the Niger Delta to be
recognised as a region unto itself, show kingship to the Federal Government and
also independence as a state. Those are logical progressions of democratic
process.
The beauty of the dream of Isaac Boro is the dream for the Niger Delta to be
recognised as a region unto itself, show kingship to the Federal Government and
also independence as a state. Those are logical progressions of democratic
process.
But
what we have found worthy in America, Nigeria and South Africa, is that if you
remove the outer layer of skin exploitation and you don’t deal with
exploitation down to the bone marrow, you have missed the point. You can be
free of skin, colour humiliation as in skin level apartheid but there is also
trade and economic apartheid, education apartheid, engineering apartheid and
banking and shipping apartheid.
what we have found worthy in America, Nigeria and South Africa, is that if you
remove the outer layer of skin exploitation and you don’t deal with
exploitation down to the bone marrow, you have missed the point. You can be
free of skin, colour humiliation as in skin level apartheid but there is also
trade and economic apartheid, education apartheid, engineering apartheid and
banking and shipping apartheid.
God has
given you everything you could ask for, industrious people and fertile soil.
This is the kind of God endowment to you. You must give God something in
return, peace and justice. These resources must be shared fairly among God’s
people. The people must appreciate that this is the gift from God and this gift
must be treated as precious and all the people must benefit from it.
given you everything you could ask for, industrious people and fertile soil.
This is the kind of God endowment to you. You must give God something in
return, peace and justice. These resources must be shared fairly among God’s
people. The people must appreciate that this is the gift from God and this gift
must be treated as precious and all the people must benefit from it.
There
is so much greed, jealousy, violence and that is where man has failed. So
fighting for a system of economic justice is a struggle of your time. When your
governor talked about environmental degradation, he is right on the need to
build roads and bridges. You cannot rebuild without infrastructure so this
emphasis on infrastructure is not for housing development alone, your port must
be strong. The roads and bridges are the great key of European reconstruction
after the World War II.
is so much greed, jealousy, violence and that is where man has failed. So
fighting for a system of economic justice is a struggle of your time. When your
governor talked about environmental degradation, he is right on the need to
build roads and bridges. You cannot rebuild without infrastructure so this
emphasis on infrastructure is not for housing development alone, your port must
be strong. The roads and bridges are the great key of European reconstruction
after the World War II.
Terrorism
has assumed a global dimension and it is present in Nigeria, could it be the
reason why the USA set up a drone port in Niger Republic?
has assumed a global dimension and it is present in Nigeria, could it be the
reason why the USA set up a drone port in Niger Republic?
Terrorism
is a global phenomenon. People are killing innocent people to get attention.
The Boston bombers said they were upset about the war in America and
Afghanistan and bombed America in a bid to get attention. But when one has
democracy, one can resolve conflict through aggressive non-violent means. You
can create leadership, you can change leadership, you can have all the
transfers of power or you can have the right to protest, right to a free press,
and these are the real fruits of democracy.
is a global phenomenon. People are killing innocent people to get attention.
The Boston bombers said they were upset about the war in America and
Afghanistan and bombed America in a bid to get attention. But when one has
democracy, one can resolve conflict through aggressive non-violent means. You
can create leadership, you can change leadership, you can have all the
transfers of power or you can have the right to protest, right to a free press,
and these are the real fruits of democracy.
There
is no need to kill someone to be heard. You can be heard just by sitting down
and talking and that is the real beauty of democracy. When democracy is
suppressed, people can’t act and can’t talk, they can’t change things then they
speak with the voice of the unheard. That is why in this region, over 3000
barrels of oil, are lost in the pollution of rivers. Obviously that must stop,
you cannot develop when people are afraid to invest and participate. Democracy
has real key values. One key virtue of democracy is the right to participate,
the right to protest for the right.
is no need to kill someone to be heard. You can be heard just by sitting down
and talking and that is the real beauty of democracy. When democracy is
suppressed, people can’t act and can’t talk, they can’t change things then they
speak with the voice of the unheard. That is why in this region, over 3000
barrels of oil, are lost in the pollution of rivers. Obviously that must stop,
you cannot develop when people are afraid to invest and participate. Democracy
has real key values. One key virtue of democracy is the right to participate,
the right to protest for the right.
What
about the drone port?
about the drone port?
That is
a decision each country has to make. Each country will need to make decision
about military relationship. My recommendation is that we are very sensitive
when drones kill many innocent people in what is called collateral damage. We
must spend more time on conflict resolution. You cannot put out the plan to
suppress people that way. We must resolve conflicts.
a decision each country has to make. Each country will need to make decision
about military relationship. My recommendation is that we are very sensitive
when drones kill many innocent people in what is called collateral damage. We
must spend more time on conflict resolution. You cannot put out the plan to
suppress people that way. We must resolve conflicts.
You
said it would be in the best interest of big economies like the US for Nigeria
to remain together. How can big economies help Nigeria to remain as a united
country?
said it would be in the best interest of big economies like the US for Nigeria
to remain together. How can big economies help Nigeria to remain as a united
country?
Nigerians
must be determined on a united Nigeria to achieve joy, that is a Nigerian
decision. States have their place and tribes have their solutions. But the
ultimate protection is one Nigeria. One Nigeria must be achieved for us to
achieve power. Nigeria must not disintegrate. It must remain strong. Reports
about violence and terrorism and oil and the criminality around there must
result in negotiation but it must not result in separation. Within America, the
South sometime sought to secede but Lincoln did not allow it. He fought to
protect the union. You see that Isaac Boro was the one being a freedom fighter
for the region again he fought to save the union because there is strength in
the union. Fighting for fair formula is a just fight. So, when the states fight
for their fair share, it is a fair democratic fight.
must be determined on a united Nigeria to achieve joy, that is a Nigerian
decision. States have their place and tribes have their solutions. But the
ultimate protection is one Nigeria. One Nigeria must be achieved for us to
achieve power. Nigeria must not disintegrate. It must remain strong. Reports
about violence and terrorism and oil and the criminality around there must
result in negotiation but it must not result in separation. Within America, the
South sometime sought to secede but Lincoln did not allow it. He fought to
protect the union. You see that Isaac Boro was the one being a freedom fighter
for the region again he fought to save the union because there is strength in
the union. Fighting for fair formula is a just fight. So, when the states fight
for their fair share, it is a fair democratic fight.
How
would you appraise steps taken so far by President Goodluck Jonathan to
address terrorism?
would you appraise steps taken so far by President Goodluck Jonathan to
address terrorism?
The
amnesty must work and for it to work the conditions of amnesty must be fully
honoured. There is a need for economic restitution. The jobs, development and
training must be there. Within our own country when there was civil unrest and
a state of emergency, l hope that you will soon get back to the bargaining
table away from the battlefield because in the end, is the bargaining table not
the battlefield that wins the victory.
amnesty must work and for it to work the conditions of amnesty must be fully
honoured. There is a need for economic restitution. The jobs, development and
training must be there. Within our own country when there was civil unrest and
a state of emergency, l hope that you will soon get back to the bargaining
table away from the battlefield because in the end, is the bargaining table not
the battlefield that wins the victory.
You
cannot battle forever; you can bargain and resolve conflicts. It is the
bargaining table that wins victories. So, l believe so strongly in
non-violence. Non-violence does not mean fear, it means courage. It means
figuring it out, your ability to figure it out and then to fight it out. It is
better you figure it out than fighting it out; better figuring it out than
shooting it out.
cannot battle forever; you can bargain and resolve conflicts. It is the
bargaining table that wins victories. So, l believe so strongly in
non-violence. Non-violence does not mean fear, it means courage. It means
figuring it out, your ability to figure it out and then to fight it out. It is
better you figure it out than fighting it out; better figuring it out than
shooting it out.
Source: Punch
