Former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar, once again,
came to media attention last week when he spoke at this year’s Leadership
Newspapers Conference/Awards in Abuja. It was an avenue for him, former
Governor of Lagos State, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, Professor Pat Utomi and Governor
Ibrahim Shettima of Borno State to speak truth to power. That day, Atiku
marched in lock-step with those advocating restructuring, constitutional
amendment, state police, independent and efficient judiciary, two-party system
and others.
came to media attention last week when he spoke at this year’s Leadership
Newspapers Conference/Awards in Abuja. It was an avenue for him, former
Governor of Lagos State, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, Professor Pat Utomi and Governor
Ibrahim Shettima of Borno State to speak truth to power. That day, Atiku
marched in lock-step with those advocating restructuring, constitutional
amendment, state police, independent and efficient judiciary, two-party system
and others.
Our Abuja Bureau staff, led by AYORINDE OLUOKUN, DESMOND UTOMWEN
and photo journalist, FEMI IPAYE, attended the lecture, but their minds were
not there! They had a different mission: to interview Atiku. About 30 minutes
to the end of the ceremony, The team rushed to Atiku’s Asokoro home to lay
ambush for him. They were sure he would first touch home before travelling that
day. They were lucky. Atiku granted the magazine an interview. He cleared the
air on how he left the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, how he fought former
president, Olusegun Obasanjo over “third term”, how Nigerians could liberate
themselves from oppressive rule and of course, his 2015 ambition.
How
is your preparation for 2015 election going?
is your preparation for 2015 election going?
Well,
on 2015, I am just listening. I have been receiving a number of groups venting
their frustrations about governance issues, corruption and so on and I have
just been listening because I have to distil all these things to be able to
make up my mind. So this is what I can say about 2015.
on 2015, I am just listening. I have been receiving a number of groups venting
their frustrations about governance issues, corruption and so on and I have
just been listening because I have to distil all these things to be able to
make up my mind. So this is what I can say about 2015.
But
there was a report that you were trying to revive your campaign structure,
media team and office, preparatory to launching your presidential campaign?
there was a report that you were trying to revive your campaign structure,
media team and office, preparatory to launching your presidential campaign?
That
report was pretty inaccurate. First, I don’t have a campaign office. I closed
the last one. Secondly, it is true that the media office is being renovated,
but there is nothing there; it’s the same staff, the same number of people that
are still there. That was an inaccurate report.
report was pretty inaccurate. First, I don’t have a campaign office. I closed
the last one. Secondly, it is true that the media office is being renovated,
but there is nothing there; it’s the same staff, the same number of people that
are still there. That was an inaccurate report.
The
groups that have been coming must be telling you some things and asking you to
take certain actions?
groups that have been coming must be telling you some things and asking you to
take certain actions?
People
have been coming to vent a lot of frustrations: politicians, public office
holders and retired people. All manner of people have been coming and I have
been listening to them.
have been coming to vent a lot of frustrations: politicians, public office
holders and retired people. All manner of people have been coming and I have
been listening to them.
What
are these frustrations?
are these frustrations?
Frustrations
over governance, whether at the federal, state or local government level. It
doesn’t seem government is working. It a systemic thing. Basically, there are
frustrations about bad governance at all levels and people want to see more
progress, more jobs. There is so much poverty. There are so many challenges:
insecurity, unemployment, poverty, inadequate healthcare delivery. In some
states, I know that hospitals and schools have not been working because
salaries have not been paid, so it is pervasive.
over governance, whether at the federal, state or local government level. It
doesn’t seem government is working. It a systemic thing. Basically, there are
frustrations about bad governance at all levels and people want to see more
progress, more jobs. There is so much poverty. There are so many challenges:
insecurity, unemployment, poverty, inadequate healthcare delivery. In some
states, I know that hospitals and schools have not been working because
salaries have not been paid, so it is pervasive.
So,
what has been your answer to these groups?
what has been your answer to these groups?
Well,
my answer is: “Let’s keep in touch.”
my answer is: “Let’s keep in touch.”
But
what are your views on all these things and what will be your advice as a
former Vice-President?
what are your views on all these things and what will be your advice as a
former Vice-President?
Considering
my position, if I have strong views on an issue I think the government should
know about, I will book an appointment with the President and the
Vice-President to tell them. I don’t think it is appropriate for me to come out
in the media, having attained that high position, to start saying government is
this or that. If it is the President I want to talk to or the Vice-President, I
will seek an audience and talk to them.
my position, if I have strong views on an issue I think the government should
know about, I will book an appointment with the President and the
Vice-President to tell them. I don’t think it is appropriate for me to come out
in the media, having attained that high position, to start saying government is
this or that. If it is the President I want to talk to or the Vice-President, I
will seek an audience and talk to them.
Are
you saying you’ve not made up your mind on whether to contest for the
presidency in the 2015 elections?
you saying you’ve not made up your mind on whether to contest for the
presidency in the 2015 elections?
I
have not made up my mind.
have not made up my mind.
Or
are you adopting the siddon look approach?
are you adopting the siddon look approach?
I
will not even say siddon look. I don’t want to siddon look.
will not even say siddon look. I don’t want to siddon look.
Or
perhaps, you are still praying about it?
perhaps, you are still praying about it?
No.
I don’t believe that prayer is the solution to our problems. We must take our
destiny into our hands. The people of Egypt decided at a point to take their
destiny into their hands and bring about change in their country. I mean every
country has its own way of doing things. So, I think prayers alone will not
solve our problem. Have you ever heard where God came down from wherever to
solve people’s problems? Even, when he anointed prophets, they fought to
establish God’s will on earth. They fought and they prayed to him and He
listened. But Nigerians don’t know how to fight for their rights. I don’t know
why it is so. Nigerians can hardly be on the street for three days, they will
begin to disappear.
I don’t believe that prayer is the solution to our problems. We must take our
destiny into our hands. The people of Egypt decided at a point to take their
destiny into their hands and bring about change in their country. I mean every
country has its own way of doing things. So, I think prayers alone will not
solve our problem. Have you ever heard where God came down from wherever to
solve people’s problems? Even, when he anointed prophets, they fought to
establish God’s will on earth. They fought and they prayed to him and He
listened. But Nigerians don’t know how to fight for their rights. I don’t know
why it is so. Nigerians can hardly be on the street for three days, they will
begin to disappear.
What
do you mean by fight?
do you mean by fight?
I
mean political fight, civil disobedience. You demand your right; that is what I
mean. I don’t mean violence or killing.
mean political fight, civil disobedience. You demand your right; that is what I
mean. I don’t mean violence or killing.
There
is also the argument that Nigerian leaders don’t galvanise their followers for
the fight to demand for their rights…
is also the argument that Nigerian leaders don’t galvanise their followers for
the fight to demand for their rights…
I
fought Chief Obasanjo in this country on this issue of term limit, the
so-called Third Term. Everybody disappeared and left me alone. I survived that.
I fought President Jonathan on the issue of not going by the constitution of
the party. At the end of the day, everybody deserted me. So, how can you say as
a leader, I don’t do what I am supposed to do? If I had not fought President
Obasanjo, everybody in office today would not have been there. He would still
be the President and I’d still be the Vice-President. So, every elected person
since Obasanjo left owes that to me and to those Nigerians we worked together
to abort the move to remove term limit from the constitution. So, if we can
work together, definitely we will be able to change this country. But if we
don’t work together, there is no way we can change the country.
fought Chief Obasanjo in this country on this issue of term limit, the
so-called Third Term. Everybody disappeared and left me alone. I survived that.
I fought President Jonathan on the issue of not going by the constitution of
the party. At the end of the day, everybody deserted me. So, how can you say as
a leader, I don’t do what I am supposed to do? If I had not fought President
Obasanjo, everybody in office today would not have been there. He would still
be the President and I’d still be the Vice-President. So, every elected person
since Obasanjo left owes that to me and to those Nigerians we worked together
to abort the move to remove term limit from the constitution. So, if we can
work together, definitely we will be able to change this country. But if we
don’t work together, there is no way we can change the country.
But
you are just one person. What about other leaders?
you are just one person. What about other leaders?
I
don’t think so. There was a leader I visited few days ago. He is older than me.
He was in government before me and had held several appointments from the
Second Republic and so on. I was telling him that he should intervene in this
matter. He said, ‘You will be shocked to hear my encounter with one governor.’
I asked what happened. He said when he met the governor, he told him that he
had come to advise on this and that. But the governor said: ‘When we see you
people meeting, we laugh at you.’ He replied: ‘Sir, you laugh at us?’ The
governor said: ‘Yes. Do you have delegates? So, you have no relevance.’ What
the governor forgot is that one day, he too will be out of office and will want
to be listened to. Sometimes, there is what I will call some arrogance. When
people are in office, they think that is the beginning and the end. But it is a
temporal situation. When you are in office, you spend maybe your eight years
and then you come back home. You will want to be respected also, you will want
to be listened to because you believe you have acquired some experience and you
might even aim at higher leadership.
don’t think so. There was a leader I visited few days ago. He is older than me.
He was in government before me and had held several appointments from the
Second Republic and so on. I was telling him that he should intervene in this
matter. He said, ‘You will be shocked to hear my encounter with one governor.’
I asked what happened. He said when he met the governor, he told him that he
had come to advise on this and that. But the governor said: ‘When we see you
people meeting, we laugh at you.’ He replied: ‘Sir, you laugh at us?’ The
governor said: ‘Yes. Do you have delegates? So, you have no relevance.’ What
the governor forgot is that one day, he too will be out of office and will want
to be listened to. Sometimes, there is what I will call some arrogance. When
people are in office, they think that is the beginning and the end. But it is a
temporal situation. When you are in office, you spend maybe your eight years
and then you come back home. You will want to be respected also, you will want
to be listened to because you believe you have acquired some experience and you
might even aim at higher leadership.
With
this overwhelming control of delegates by the governors and going by your
experience at the last presidential primary of PDP, it will be difficult to
remove a sitting president. What is the way out?
this overwhelming control of delegates by the governors and going by your
experience at the last presidential primary of PDP, it will be difficult to
remove a sitting president. What is the way out?
General
Danjuma spoke a bit about it today (last Tuesday). He called it the tyranny of
governors. Of course, if you compare the story I gave you and what General
Danjuma said, you can say it is true that governors control the delegates. But
if the delegates are determined not to be controlled, governors cannot control
them. After all, there were some states that defied their governors and voted
for me. So, it all depends on an enlightened electorate, whether at the primary
or whatever level. It all depends on the quality of the electorate.
Danjuma spoke a bit about it today (last Tuesday). He called it the tyranny of
governors. Of course, if you compare the story I gave you and what General
Danjuma said, you can say it is true that governors control the delegates. But
if the delegates are determined not to be controlled, governors cannot control
them. After all, there were some states that defied their governors and voted
for me. So, it all depends on an enlightened electorate, whether at the primary
or whatever level. It all depends on the quality of the electorate.
Talking
about the 2011 PDP presidential primary, were you disappointed in any way by
the outcome?
about the 2011 PDP presidential primary, were you disappointed in any way by
the outcome?
Of
course, I was disappointed because there was no level playing field. The
transparency that was shown on television was not really there. Of course, I
should be disappointed, not because I wanted to win, but if I had lost fairly,
I would have had no problem with it.
course, I was disappointed because there was no level playing field. The
transparency that was shown on television was not really there. Of course, I
should be disappointed, not because I wanted to win, but if I had lost fairly,
I would have had no problem with it.
Some
people also think that the speech you delivered at that convention was somehow
too harsh?
people also think that the speech you delivered at that convention was somehow
too harsh?
No.
I am known for telling the truth and that is what I said. What is it that I
said that have not come to pass? Tell me.
I am known for telling the truth and that is what I said. What is it that I
said that have not come to pass? Tell me.
But
how have you been able to overcome the acrimony generated by the outcome of
that convention to join hands with government in the task of tackling the
challenges confronting the country?
how have you been able to overcome the acrimony generated by the outcome of
that convention to join hands with government in the task of tackling the
challenges confronting the country?
It
is the leadership that you should ask. It’s the leadership that should show
leadership by saying: ‘Well, we contested against each, but I won. In what way
can you help?’ If you are not contacted, if you are not invited, you cannot
impose yourself.
is the leadership that you should ask. It’s the leadership that should show
leadership by saying: ‘Well, we contested against each, but I won. In what way
can you help?’ If you are not contacted, if you are not invited, you cannot
impose yourself.
Are
you saying the promise made that day to extend a hand of fellowship to other
party members like you was not backed by action?
you saying the promise made that day to extend a hand of fellowship to other
party members like you was not backed by action?
Of
course. When we came to office, we said we wanted to form a government of
national unity. We did. We invited APP or whatever it is and other political
parties and they came. They joined our government. I don’t know of any person
who is from a different political party in this government. I don’t know
because I don’t know of people who have been appointed. But I don’t know of visible
politicians from other political parties that are in this government.
course. When we came to office, we said we wanted to form a government of
national unity. We did. We invited APP or whatever it is and other political
parties and they came. They joined our government. I don’t know of any person
who is from a different political party in this government. I don’t know
because I don’t know of people who have been appointed. But I don’t know of visible
politicians from other political parties that are in this government.
What
will be your response to those who have tried to link the statements of
politicians from the North before the presidential election to the current
events in the country?
will be your response to those who have tried to link the statements of
politicians from the North before the presidential election to the current
events in the country?
I
don’t know why they are saying that. They should explain better. I have not
made any statement to that effect.
don’t know why they are saying that. They should explain better. I have not
made any statement to that effect.
The
claim is that it was Atiku and Buhari who said they will make the country
ungovernable.
claim is that it was Atiku and Buhari who said they will make the country
ungovernable.
I
don’t think there was any statement saying such that could be attributed to me.
I don’t know about Buhari and I cannot speak for him. But I don’t think there
is any statement that can be attributed to me as such.
don’t think there was any statement saying such that could be attributed to me.
I don’t know about Buhari and I cannot speak for him. But I don’t think there
is any statement that can be attributed to me as such.
But
were you surprised to have been linked to the violence?
were you surprised to have been linked to the violence?
If
they can weave some things around me, let them weave. Everybody who knows my
political pedigree knows that I play clean politics.
they can weave some things around me, let them weave. Everybody who knows my
political pedigree knows that I play clean politics.
Many
people still believe that you should not have left PDP in the first place…
people still believe that you should not have left PDP in the first place…
I
don’t know how many times I will say this. I did not leave PDP. I was kicked out
of PDP. They introduced something I have never known in politics. They said,
‘You have to re-register yourself.’ Revalidation in the party that you formed?
So, I went to Adamawa, went to my ward and met the registration officer. He
said he could not register me. I flew back to Abuja and when I met the
President, I told him I was refused registration at my ward and asked how that
could have happened. He said he would get Ahmadu Ali, the chairman. I was
sitting down in my office, the Chairman came with some members of the executive
committee. If I can remember, the late Bernard Eze accompanied them with the
register to my office and they said they’d come to register me.
don’t know how many times I will say this. I did not leave PDP. I was kicked out
of PDP. They introduced something I have never known in politics. They said,
‘You have to re-register yourself.’ Revalidation in the party that you formed?
So, I went to Adamawa, went to my ward and met the registration officer. He
said he could not register me. I flew back to Abuja and when I met the
President, I told him I was refused registration at my ward and asked how that
could have happened. He said he would get Ahmadu Ali, the chairman. I was
sitting down in my office, the Chairman came with some members of the executive
committee. If I can remember, the late Bernard Eze accompanied them with the
register to my office and they said they’d come to register me.
I
said: ‘Gentlemen, I am a founding member of this party; you can’t register me
at the national headquarters. You must register me at my ward. If you really
wanted me registered, you should have invited my ward chairman and secretary to
come with the register to come and register me. If I register with you now, it
is invalid, according to the constitution.’
said: ‘Gentlemen, I am a founding member of this party; you can’t register me
at the national headquarters. You must register me at my ward. If you really
wanted me registered, you should have invited my ward chairman and secretary to
come with the register to come and register me. If I register with you now, it
is invalid, according to the constitution.’
Technically,
I was out of the party. I told them to leave my office. That was how I was
pushed out of the party. You people keep saying I changed party. Changed party
to what? If I want to play politics and I was pushed out, do you want me to
come to my house and sit down?
I was out of the party. I told them to leave my office. That was how I was
pushed out of the party. You people keep saying I changed party. Changed party
to what? If I want to play politics and I was pushed out, do you want me to
come to my house and sit down?
Talking
about PDP, there have been moves to amend the constitution of the party. Going
by what happened, especially as regards the zoning clause, which amendments to
the constitution would you advocate?
about PDP, there have been moves to amend the constitution of the party. Going
by what happened, especially as regards the zoning clause, which amendments to
the constitution would you advocate?
Please,
I don’t want to talk about PDP because I will flare up.
I don’t want to talk about PDP because I will flare up.
What
do you think is wrong with the party? If you say you don’t want to talk about
the party, many people will start asking whether you are still in or on your
way out of the party?
do you think is wrong with the party? If you say you don’t want to talk about
the party, many people will start asking whether you are still in or on your
way out of the party?
I
am in. I want to see a reform of the party, a return to its original form, the
way we envisaged the party. A party that has all it takes to move this country
forward, entrench democratic processes, deepen democracy and provide good
governance. I want to see a reform.
am in. I want to see a reform of the party, a return to its original form, the
way we envisaged the party. A party that has all it takes to move this country
forward, entrench democratic processes, deepen democracy and provide good
governance. I want to see a reform.
Are
you saying that the reform is not going on now?
you saying that the reform is not going on now?
It
is not forthcoming.
is not forthcoming.
What
is your opinion on the issue of zoning in the constitution of your party, given
what happened last year?
is your opinion on the issue of zoning in the constitution of your party, given
what happened last year?
As
far as I am concerned, it is dead. Zoning is in the constitution of the party,
but it is dead.
far as I am concerned, it is dead. Zoning is in the constitution of the party,
but it is dead.
So
in 2015, there should be no zoning to the North or anywhere, everybody is free
to contest for the presidential ticket of PDP?
in 2015, there should be no zoning to the North or anywhere, everybody is free
to contest for the presidential ticket of PDP?
Yes,
everybody is free as far as I am concerned; everybody is free to run.
everybody is free as far as I am concerned; everybody is free to run.
There
were also reports recently that the Peoples Democratic Movement, PDM, political
machine, which you were once part of, is trying to regroup…
were also reports recently that the Peoples Democratic Movement, PDM, political
machine, which you were once part of, is trying to regroup…
Yes,
it is true. I issued a statement that I was aware of it. I approve of it
because I was contacted. Even as Vice-President, I tried to revive PDM and I
reached out to those even outside PDP and we held a very big meeting at
Sheraton Hotels. But the President was very uncomfortable with it then and he
killed it.
it is true. I issued a statement that I was aware of it. I approve of it
because I was contacted. Even as Vice-President, I tried to revive PDM and I
reached out to those even outside PDP and we held a very big meeting at
Sheraton Hotels. But the President was very uncomfortable with it then and he
killed it.
If
PDM comes back now, can we expect it to give birth to a new political party?
PDM comes back now, can we expect it to give birth to a new political party?
No.
The group that came to me really did not say they wanted to form a new party.
And that is why I think most of the people that attended were from the PDP.
That was what I was told. I don’t know if there are people from the other
parties, but members of PDM are scattered, some are in ACN and PDP.
The group that came to me really did not say they wanted to form a new party.
And that is why I think most of the people that attended were from the PDP.
That was what I was told. I don’t know if there are people from the other
parties, but members of PDM are scattered, some are in ACN and PDP.
Many
will say the address you delivered today (last Tuesday) at the LEADERSHIP
Awards Ceremony represents a change in your political belief.
will say the address you delivered today (last Tuesday) at the LEADERSHIP
Awards Ceremony represents a change in your political belief.
Why
should they believe in what I have not said–reading my mind? In the same
speech, I said that was the bone of contention between me and my former boss. I
told him that he was the most powerful president in the world. I said it even
when I was in office and I explained why I said so.
should they believe in what I have not said–reading my mind? In the same
speech, I said that was the bone of contention between me and my former boss. I
told him that he was the most powerful president in the world. I said it even
when I was in office and I explained why I said so.
On
the issue of Boko Haram, what do you think government should do now to end the
crisis?
the issue of Boko Haram, what do you think government should do now to end the
crisis?
I
have always been on the side of dialogue. I have said that right from the onset
of the crisis. It’s dialogue that will solve the problem.
have always been on the side of dialogue. I have said that right from the onset
of the crisis. It’s dialogue that will solve the problem.
You
are insisting that you have not taken any stand on your political direction in
2015?
are insisting that you have not taken any stand on your political direction in
2015?
No
stand yet.
stand yet.
–Published in TheNEWS Magazine
